Europe, Canada and to a small degree America is being over run with Islamic immigrants. Unlike Immigrants from other parts of the World, like India, Latin America or Asia, they have no intention of integration. Instead they created No Go Zones for Non Muslims in European cities. This was done on purpose by Progressive Politicians in Europe to create a Multi-Cultural society. In reality all this has done is to enable Islam to gain a foothold and influence politics.
A FEW weeks ago in London, British Foreign Secretary David Miliband told me that 75 per cent of the terrorist plots aimed at Britain originated in the federally administered tribal areas of Pakistan. Some 800,000 Pakistanis live in Britain.
The vast majority, it goes without saying, are law-abiding citizens. But there is a link between uncontrolled Muslim immigration and terrorism.
It is extremely difficult to talk honestly about Muslim immigration. All generalisations about it are subject to countless exceptions. Muslims are very different from each other. Most are reasonably successful.But a much bigger minority end up with social, political, extremist or other problems resulting from a lack of integration than is the case with any other cohort of immigrants in Western societies. A lack of honest discussion about this results in bad policy.
Read the rest.
The Progressives call anyone who discusses this fact as a an Islamophobe. However it is a truth that Islam is a Transnationalist Ideology that does not recognize Nation States. Islam imposes it’s Arabic based culture wherever it goes. Islam is not compatible with Western Societies which is why Muslim Immigrants are causing problems. The sooner this is acknowledged, the sooner it can be dealt with. Progressives welcome Islamic Immigration as they view them as allies against Christians and Jews. That is the real reason for the Leftist-Islamic alliance.
Tags: Islamic Immigration
Rodan… you are an islamaphobe!!!
//
And like von Hindenburg, they think the savage beast can be controlled. When their overlords start hanging gays, will they still think this was a good idea?
re: #1 by MikeA
re: #2 by snork
Look at this comment from the cesspool!
This is Leftist propaganda above.
This seems like the way it willplay out. The Lefties will work with the muzzies to try to create a Juden-frei and Christ-frei zone in both public and private life. When the muzzies trun on them, they will look to the still surviving conservatives to pull their nuts out of the fire.
Conversely, the lefties will wonder what happened to their utopia as they are hung, burqa’d or driven out. In certain cases, you can’t fix stupid.
re: #3 by Rodan
Especially this: “Dearborn has the largest Arab population outside the Middle East”
Of course that is bullshit. And the rest is absolute conjecture backed up only by this posters ignorance.
OT:
A forthcoming DailyKos/Research 2000 poll will confirm that Dede Scozzafava (R) has lost ground in New York’s 23rd congressional district and that Bill Owens (D) and Doug Hoffman (C) are now running “neck and neck.”
Owens leads Hoffman by just one point, 33% to 32%, followed by Scozzafava at 21%
And you KNOW that sampling has to be skewed dem.
re: #3 by Rodan
I’d sure like to see some actual evidence to back that claim up, because it’s 180 degrees off from what I’ve heard.
OT Police: Two men shot at California synagogue
Shooting at North Hollywood synagogue investigated as hate crime
STIMULUS WATCH: Stimulus jobs overstated by 1000s
Excerpt:
New stimulus reports to correct early errors
Job count flawed in report on stimulus
re: #7 by lobo91
Well nobody over there is gonna jump on him for it.
Especially this: “Dearborn has the largest
Arab population outside the Middle East”
The above quote makes me wonder why they equate Arab with Muslim. They could have a large Arab Christian population. And you are correct, it is pure conjecture on whether they are helping the FBI in any way shape or form… If there are terrorists in ther midst, then they must be there cause they feel comfortable.
re: #9 by Nevergiveup
Of course not.
A Michigan man has filed a federal lawsuit claiming his constitutional rights were violated when he was ordered to remove a Nativity scene from the median of a public road — a creche that his family has displayed at the location for 63 years.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,570308,00.html
Can someone tell this Jew why some people hate X-Mass so much?
re: #7 by lobo91
I agree, I have seen photos of Hizb’ALlah flags in Dearborn.
re: #12 by Nevergiveup
The Progressives hate Christianity with a passion. They want to remove all traces of Christian religion in the public. That is why They hate Christmas.
re: #5 by Nevergiveup
Not only that, it’s rather self-contradicting. If they were all such wonderful patriots, why do we have a problem at all?
My bad. We’re under attack by the creationists under my bed.
THOUGHT FOR THE DAY
Have you ever wondered if the one dollar bills
In your wallet were ever in a stripper’s butt crack?
If not, you’re wondering now. Have a nice day ..
So folks, always remember to wash your hands after handling money
That’s my public service announcement for the day.
Thank you very much!
re: #3 by Rodan
wasn’t there video of folks from deerborn cheering on 9/11?
re: #1 by MikeA
Islamaphobe??? Count me IN!!!
re: #10 by MikeA
That reminds me of the (unintentionally) hilarious video that was put out by some pro-Islam group a couple of years ago that highlighted famous “Muslim Americans.”
Among those it mentioned were Paula Abdul (Lebanese Christian) and George Maloof (also of Lebanese Christian descent).
The fact that they included Maloof was particularly laughable, given that he made his money as a beer distributor and Vegas casino owner.
Not exactly halal occupations…
re: #19 by lobo91
How soon they all forget Danny Thomas?
re: #12 by Nevergiveup
because of the X.
re: 19. lobo91
Among those it mentioned were Paula Abdul (Lebanese Christian)
Since she is kind of nuts now… they could claim her…
//
re: #17 by LanceKates
Yes there was!
re: #19 by lobo91
Paula Abdul is actually Syrian-Canadian Jewish, which makes their list even funnier.
Muslim beats up reporter
hmm.link went poof
re: #16 by jimmytheclaw
LOL,never thought of that but you’re correct Jimmy, money, along with phones and doorknobs are among the filthier items we come into frequent contact with.
re: #22 by MikeA
Actually, Paula Abdul is Jewish.
Her father was born a Syrian Jew and raised in Brazil and her mother is a Jewish woman from Canada.
Would you support DeMint if he was the GOP nominee?
Vote in this poll
http://jumpinginpools.blogspot.com/2009/10/vote-in-our-poll-would-you-support-jim.html
http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/playlist/8178
there we go
re: #23 by Rodan
that’s what I thought, but I’m on my cell, so I can’t view it or easily search it.
re: #3 by Rodan
Well, that is great that “SixDegrees” “wouldn’t be surprised…” (as I assume he/she was trying to say) but his assumption, wish, or belief isn’t PROOF! That entire comment is nothing more than mere speculation based on well….I dont’ know.
Personally, until I get some actual evidence and proof to substantiate “SixDegrees’” wish, I’m going to have to rely on the thousands of years of history regarding Islamists, and the evidence gathered regarding the Muslims of Deerborne (including the following: http://www.littlegreenfootballs2.com/2009/07/08/welcome-to-dearbornistsan-arab-festival-2009/ ).
Of course, these actual examples should not gbe used to accuse the entire Islamic community of the U.S., or Michigan, but i’ll leave the wishful thinking that flys in the face of the reality and proof to the liberals!
never mind.lol it’s over at jihad watch
re: #12 by Nevergiveup
I will remind you that non-religious Jews, as a rule, are also very, very anti-Christmas, because they fear the seduction of Christmas will wean their children from the Judaism that they have not been taught and do not practice.
More observant Jews, as a rule, aren’t bothered.
It is ironic that non-observant Jews have inflated the minor holiday of Chanukah to “compete” with Christmas, insofar as the Maccabees were, if not the Taliban of their day, certainly something akin to the very “black hats” that the non-observant Jews shun today. The first person killed in the Maccabean rebellion was not one of the Greek occupiers, but an assimilated Jew who was going to sacrifice to a Greek idol.
re: #7 by lobo91
If you want to go into the belly of that beast I’d start here at the Dearborn Underground.
re: #28 by Eliana
I didn’t know that –Funny. I still don’t like her, but that’s funny
re: #3 by Rodan
This may very well be the single dumbest thing ever written at the other place. I have seen the weapons grade crazy in place in Dearborn Mi. The local Christian population became so afraid of their Muslime neighbors, that they beat tracks to other Detroit Suburbs. The FBI is in constant survailance of the rather obvious anti-American behavior on exhibit on a continual basis in Dearbornistan. By the way, Islamiphobia is not a disease, it is a very rational reaction to terrorism.
re: #12 by Nevergiveup
Just so you know, using “X-mas” instead of “Christmas” is an old atheist trick to take Christ out of Christmas.Never knew this until a Christian friend explained it.
re: #32 by WrathofG-d
notice that having been featured on a website creationists go to is enough to condemn someone at 1.0, but that there is no six degrees with the islamic terrorists.
re: #34 by buzzsawmonkey
I’ve often chuckled over that fact. It is quite ironic that those who elevate Chanukkah are exactly the ones whom Chanukkah is against.
I believe it was Michael Medved who wrote a couple years ago a great article about this.
re: #28 by Eliana
Syrian Jews are an endangered species these days. I remember hearing about one guy who walked from Damascus to Golan, and almost was shot by the Israelis, until they grilled him pretty thoroughly about some pretty esoteric details of Judaism. They estimate about 100 left in Damascus, and maybe that many in Aleppo.
I have it on good authority that large numbers converted to Christianity, and are still in Syria, primarily in those two cities, and they know of their heritage and their decedents may in the future return to their roots.
The Jews of Aleppo have a fascinating history; I’m just going blank for the moment on what exactly it was that was so fascinating.
re: #24 by vagabond trader
I was working from memory, and haven’t had any coffee yet.
She’s certainly not Muslim, whatever she is.
I absolutely believe the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, law abiding people who are willing to let Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and athiests live as Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and athiests.
I also believe that there are more Muslims who are terrorists than not only any other group out there, but that ALL other groups out there.
re: #38 by vagabond trader
I didn’t know that and I am lazy. Also it’s harder to misspell X-Mass. Christmas.Christmas.Christmas.Christmas.Christmas.
re: #12 by Nevergiveup
I think some people are offended that Jews are born, and that is why Nativity Creche is an abomination to them.
Nativity scene is about a Jewish mom (Miriam) giving birth to a Jewish boy (Yshua) and it is “adored” by gentiles (the three Kings or Magi).
re: #34 by buzzsawmonkey
Conversely I know marginal Jews who love Christmas and fret every year about having to provide festivity for both holidays. Go figure.
re: #32 by WrathofG-d
Exactly and you nailed it. The reason people are being caught in Dearborn is because that’s where the Jihadists are concentrated. These people are not Pro-American and openly support Hamas and Hizb’Allah.
re: #38 by vagabond trader
I’d always understood the ‘X’ was symbolic of the Greek letter ‘Chi’…
re: #38 by vagabond trader
Just so you know, using “X-mas” instead of “Christmas” is an old atheist trick to take Christ out of Christmas.Never knew this until a Christian friend explained it.
Actually, no. The “X” comes from one of the abbreviated spellings of “Christ” in Greek, and goes back hundreds, if not nearly two thousand, years.
With all respect to Christians and the feeling of being embattled that they are often entitled to have, I’ve run into a lot of “urban legend” tales like the above. I remember talking to a kid a few years ago who was attending a Catholic school, and the nun teaching him was so ignorant she did not know that the “A.D.” in dates stands for the Latin “Anno Domini” (”year of Our Lord”). She told the kid that it stood for “After Death,” as in after Jesus’ death–which makes no sense not only because Jesus’ lifetime is recorded in “A.D.” years, and so could hardly be “after death,” but because “after death” is English, which of course did not exist in its modern form when “A.D.” began.
178 JasonA
Thu, Oct 29, 2009 10:41:00am
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re: #172 Killgore Trout
Hey, point me in the direction of any poll from the last few days that has Dede in anything other than dead last and I’ll feel better.
Why? Your obviously a Liberal, why are you rooting for a Republican of any kind, unless you know she is a trojan horse?
re: #43 by mfhorn
A recent survey of Muslims worldwide would say otherwise. Conducted by Ibdtipp, it found that 50% of the members of the religion of peace view the violent version of jihad as justified, and the will of allah. 50% of these folks believe that the world should be forced into shariyah law by any means nescessary. This small fringe element nonsense is going to get us all killed.
re: #34 by buzzsawmonkey
Yes in fact Religious Jews respect Christmas because they are secure in their faith. I am secure in my Catholic faith and Chanukkah symbols don’t bother me.
Real Christians and Real Jews respect each other because we are secure in our faiths. Fake Christians and Fake Jews are the ones who are insecure, so they hate the other.
re: #44 by Nevergiveup
Noel is easier!
re: #51 by Flyovercountry
If Obama doesn’t get us killed first?
re: #16 by jimmytheclaw
A strippers butt crack is most likely more sanitary than the average person’s hand.
re: #53 by vagabond trader
I knew a girl named Noel once and yeah she was pretty easy.
I am told that this was the thread on Ace that got hijacked by the trolls (probably from LGF)
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?print=yes&id=20794
re: #41 by snork
I know a guy in NYC who was born in a Jewish community in Damascus. He lived there with his family until he was 14. They fled Syria along with many of the remaining Syrian Jews in the early 1990s, as I recall.
He said it was frightening to live as a Jew in Syria.
Arabic is his native language but he’s learned to speak English and Hebrew in NYC via religious Jewish groups that reach out to Jewish immigrants.
He was beaten up very badly in Syria (as a 14 year old boy) shortly before he and his family left. He is certain that he wouldn’t have lived much longer if they hadn’t gotten out of Syria.
He would be a fantastic interpreter of Arabic for American intelligence organizations, but last I heard, these agencies were still refusing to accept Jews in this role because of worries that they might be too pro-Israel.
He’s a religious Jew in NYC today and sometimes he likes to spook NYC Arabs by saying something to them in his/their native Arabic language. He doesn’t do this in a way that would get him hurt, though. He just says a few words in perfect Arabic and walks away while Arab jaws are dropping.
# 12 Nevergiveup
IMAO, some people just like pissing on other people’s parades, and some people are just attention whores. (For an example of the latter, see Rep. Grayson.)
re: #49 by buzzsawmonkey
No you are right about the AD thing. The X-Mass thing, I never really got worked up for that.
The X comes from teh Chi-Ro sign wich are the initials of Jesus in in Greek; PX.
re: #52 by Rodan
And what does that say about the science cheerleaders like Johnson?
re: #60 by Rodan
The X comes from teh Chi-Ro sign wich are the initials of Jesus in in Greek; PX.
Do soldiers buy their Christmas gifts at the PX?
re: #58 by Eliana
Pardon my French, but WTF do they have between their Obamadamn ears?????
re: #38 by vagabond trader
That is the same reason why Santa Claus, Frosty the Snowman and Mr. Hanky exists. It is the athiests attempting to erase baby Jesus from his rightful place at Christmas dinner.
re: #62 by buzzsawmonkey
Army guys/gals do. Navy/Marines buy theirs at the eXchange.
re: #51 by Flyovercountry
While I don’t disagree with your conclusion, I don’t know how much faith I’d put in the results of any polling conducted of “worldwide Muslim” populations.
The fact that someone surveyed a few hundred people in each of the world’s majority Muslim countries doesn’t make it a good sample. I’d be willing to bet that they only talked to people in urban areas, for example.
The vast majority of the world’s Muslims are illiterate in both their own language and in Arabic, and have never met anyone who isn’t a Muslim.
re: #64 by Pablo Honey
To do Santa Claus justice, he did start out as St. Nicholas.
re: #38 by vagabond trader
Nuh-uh, it’s older than you think. The letter X actually signifies the greek letter Chi (pronounced kai), which looks like an X when written, and is the first letter of “christ” (Χριστός – christos) in greek. χ (chi) and χρ (chi rho) are both used as abbreviations for christ in art and literature as far back as the 9th century, and would have been used even earier judging from the use of the labarum (☧ – fusing chi and ro into a single symbol to represent the person of christ) by constantine in the 2nd century;. Xmas an abbreviation for “christ’s mass” that uses the first letter of his name and the mediæval latin “mæsse”, definitely in use since the 16th century and probably before then, and it’s only relatively recently as education in classical languages has fallen away that the assumption has been that it was an attempt to take the christ out of christmas, when it’s nothing of the sort.
re: #64 by Pablo Honey
OK Santa and Frosty I know, but who the hell is Hanky?
re: #49 by buzzsawmonkey
Whatever the esoteric meaning of X is,the modern use is to neutralize the greeting.
Democrats Ask New Jersey Secretary of State to Ignore Mismatched Signatures on Absentee Ballot Requests
The thing about Christmas is that it should be celebrated during Feast of Booths…
When you read the Gospel story of the birth of Jesus and know Jewish customs, you would see that it was during the Feast of Booths or Tabernacles or Sukkot…
Another clue is that shepherds watching fields at night is done during Harvest time and not in dead winter..I hear that late December is quite cold in Bethlehem…
But, tradition is quite strong and so, you join the rest of the crowd…
But I prefer to shop after Christmas…LOL.
re: #61 by snork
They are insecure assholes who seek to impose their way of thinking on others.
I call it the Progressive Inquisition with the twist it’s now Christians and Jews!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Hankey,_the_Christmas_Poo
re: #64 by Pablo Honey
The Soviets celebrated “new year” with a character who looked like Santa and had a lame name, something like “Father Frost”.
I don’t know if it’s a conspiracy, but capitalists and communists, each for their own reasons, are substituting their own icons for the religious ones.
re: #70 by vagabond trader
I don’t think of the meaning of the “X” in “Xmas” as being in any way esoteric. Christians should certainly know it, if only because non- or anti-Christians might be trying to use it as you say.
Perhaps I’m missing something, but just as Christian observances bothered me less the more observant I became in Judaism, I can’t see why a Christian who knows what the “X” really means would be bothered by what an atheist thinks of it.
I can see a few people beat me to the explanation… oh well.
re: #71 by snork
I’m shocked.
Just kidding. I’m acually not even surprised.
re: #72 by Incognito
It was my Roman Ancestors who changed Jesus’s birth to Dec 25. Dec 25 was the Saturnalia celebrated by the Romans. It was a marketing scheme to cover up a Pagan celebration that was ingrained in Roman Culture.
re: #10 by MikeA
Without fishing out the stats, I recall that the majority of Arabs in the US are Christian.
re: #12 by Nevergiveup
First, because this seems to come up every year, the Federal Holiday of Christmas is a SECULAR Holiday!
So – here is your explanation and why we fight so hard to keep the PROGS out of Christmas. The whole purpose of the PROGS trying to dismantle Christmas is to dismantle AMERICANA TRADITIONS! To separate us from our past – our shared traditions!
That’s it in a nutshell. Has nothing to do with Santa, Rudy, wreath or tree!
re: #80 by Overlook
Maybe a long time ago. I doubt that is still true.
re: #80 by Overlook
That sounds right.
re: #75 by snork
“I don’t know if it’s a conspiracy, but capitalists and communists, each for their own reasons, are substituting their own icons for the religious ones.”
The same can be said for early Christians hijacking pagan holidays to make it more palapable to convert the locals into Christianity.
Birth of Christ on Dec 25th? Who says so? In fact, there has been a lot of debate about it. However, it does coincide nicely with the pagan winter solstice time.
re: #76 by buzzsawmonkey
I don’t make a big deal out of the X-Mass thing. There are other more open Anti-Christian things to get expose.
Example on a HBO comedy show, they had a scene where a guy’s piss gets on a picture of Jesus. The family thought it was a weeping picture. It mocks devout Christians.
It’s open season on my faith.
As fro Jews, the Left’s anti-Zionist/Israel bashing is how they mask Anti-Semitism now.
The Muslim threat is already here, and well-entrenched. We have a Muslim congressman (Keith Ellison), a President who is arguably is some type of Muslim descent, and two very large muslim communities in Michigan and Los Angeles.
The PC assertion is that ‘our’ muslims are ‘westernized’, not jihadists. Meanwhile, our prison system allows and encourages inmates (often dis-affected blacks) to convert to Islam.
So when you’re a pissed off black man who already looks at the white population as oppressing you, and Islam teaches vengeance through Jihad in the name of Allah, simply connect the dots and predict the consequences.
Take a look at Zombietime (excommunicated from the church of bat-kookery at chuck’s world) and you’ll see hexbollah and hamas flags proudly waved in public……..right here in America.
The real, physical war is coming to our homeland. It’s just a matter of when and who will choose to fight.
re: #84 by Russkilitlover
Jesus was not born Dec. 25th, he was born in teh Spring. The Dec 25th date was done by Constantine to Christianize a Pagan Holiday that was ingrained in roman Culture.
It was a marketing scheme.
re: #79 by Rodan
Actually no. His birth date was at the time unknown and there was a dating convention tied between birth and death for most saints. They actually date the birth from the death. So nine months after his death is December.
I think Rodan means ‘largest population of muslims in the US”, which is quite accurate.
re: #86 by strangelove
You want to see open jihadism in America, you should see some of the footage Steven Emerson has compiled. Masked jihadis holding conventions in hotel ballrooms, and the like.
Chilling.
re: #82 by Nevergiveup
Where did all the Lebanese and Syrian and even Palestinian Christians go? Look at the numbers. There’s been a massive exodus of Levant Arab Christians to somewhere over the past 20 years, and I think most of them ended up here.
re: #58 by Eliana
Although it is no surprise to most religious Jews, your post (especially the last part) actually goes pretty far to dispell one of the myths about (a) Jews and by extention (b) Israeli’s.
That myth is that all Jews are “Eastern European”. Insofar that I have Iraqi, Afghan, and Egyptian Jewish relatives, and many Yemenite and Iranian Jewish friends, I know this to be true. (most of them speak Arabic (or Farsi) perfectly)
However, from my experience I know that most, if not many, do not realize this. It is something that needs to be stated more often.
re: #80 by Overlook
Yes 70% of “Arabs” are christians. In reality Maronites, Copts, Chaldeans and Assyrians are not Arabs.
re: #85 by Rodan
I’m sure they were going to have a scene similarly mocking Islam, but after reviewing the fire insurance policy on the HBO building, they changed their minds…
re: #76 by buzzsawmonkey
Not what atheists think, but what they DO to abolish religion from traditional celebration.You are aware of the “Winter Holiday” designation and all its variations instead of using “Christmas.” Its in the perception and I know many Christians who view the X as just another atheist push to suppress the holiday.I didn’t make this sh*t up,the belief exists with the religious and atheists.Militant atheists are not known for merely thinking anti religon or for purity of intentions.
re: #57 by Speranza
Friggin’ disgusting.
re: #87 by Rodan
Well, there you go. Happened with a lot of the other Church holidays throughout the year – spring, summer, autumn – lots of Christian holidays laid on top of pre-existing pagan observances.
re: #91 by snork
No Most actually ended up in Latin America.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=Lebanese+in+Latin+AMerica&aq=f&aqi=g1&oq=&fp=8ec9ea851cee2c5b
My Grandmother as of Lebanese Origin.
re: #6 by typicalwhitey
My day is brightening up!
re: #91 by snork
I am not sure, but I still don’t think that TODAY most arabs in America are Christian. I may be wrong, but we will have to see.
re: #81 by vapig
If you’re going to talk about the Progressive types separating us from our past, you need to also talk about the elimination of Washington’s and Lincoln’s birthdays as holidays at all—and certainly not celebrated on their actual days, regardless of what day of the week they fall—and their being instead folded into the mushmouth “Presidents’ Day” three-day weekend.
The metamorphosis of Independence Day into “Fireworks Day.”
The metamorphosis of Thanksgiving into “Turkey Day.”
The metamorphosis of Armistice Day into “Veterans’ Day,” and thence to near irrelevance.
# 70 vagabond trader
Exactly! Besides, Christ wasn’t Greek.
re: #52 by Rodan
And very religious Jews support militant Islam. Naurei Karta are welcome guests in Iran.
Jews, Christians and Muslims are backing the law against defamation of religion.
This might be a provocation – but I must run.
Will be happy to be beaten down on my return.
ADL expresses ‘deep concern’ over LA synagogue shooting
Now there is a couragous stand for ya?
re: #102 by RickZ
Besides, Christ wasn’t Greek.
No, but the Gospels were written in Greek.
US President Barack Obama recorded a message to be played at the ceremony to remember 14 years since the assassination of former prime minister Yitzhak Rabin in Tel Aviv on Saturday night, Israel Radio reported.
The message reportedly calls on Israelis to remember Rabin’s legacy of peace, and reaffirms the strong connection between Israel and the United States.
Washington’s support of Israel’s security will never be undermined, Obama said in the message.
ya mean that part of his legacy where he called for the IDF to break their bones? Does Obama even know who Rabin was? I doubt it.
48. mfhorn
49. buzzsawmonkey
VT is correct – it’s to take the Christ out of Christmas and as a Christian I don’t really care how it’s obfuscated – that was and is the purpose for it.
re: #105 by buzzsawmonkey
Buzz, there are hints that the Gospels were actually written in Hebrew and maybe Aramaic..
Why? Jesus’ Parables do not make sense in Greek but in Hebrew makes total sense…
re: #101 by buzzsawmonkey
That particular abomination was devised by the beancounters, who decided that it would be too expensive to add another federal holiday when they wanted to create one for Martin Luther King Jr.
The tradeoff was the consolidation of Washington’s and Lincoln’s birthdays into Presidents’ Day, so there would be the same total number of federal holidays each year.
I think Christmas is safe from the sinister athiests…at least for now.
Even hateful athiest Richard Dawkins enjoys it.
___________________________________________
Scientist and atheist Richard Dawkins has admitted he does celebrate Christmas – and enjoys singing traditional Christmas carols each festive season.
The writer and evolutionary biologist told singer Jarvis Cocker that he happily wishes everyone a Merry Christmas – and used to have a tree when his daughter was younger.
Dawkins, one of the most famous atheists in the world, was interviewed by Sheffield born Cocker when he stepped in as a Christmas guest editor on Radio Four’s Today programme.
‘I am perfectly happy on Christmas day to say Merry Christmas to everybody,’ Dawkins said. ‘I might sing Christmas carols – once I was privileged to be invited to Kings College, Cambridge, for their Christmas carols and loved it.
‘I actually love most of the genuine Christmas carols. I can’t bear Jingle Bells and Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer and you might think from that that I was religious, that I can’t bear the ones that make no mention of religion. But I just think they are dreadful tunes and even more dreadful words. I like the traditional Christmas carols.’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1100842/Why-I-celebrate-Christmas-worlds-famous-atheist.html#ixzz0VLktYISn
re: #98 by Rodan
Rodan, a Mexican client told me there were many Lebanese in Mexico…
re: #72 by Incognito
I do not claim to be an authority on the NT by any means, but my understanding was that according to the Gospels Jesus was born while his parents were traveling, not on a holiday pilgrimage, but to report for a census and tax payment.
What is curious in the Gospels is that Jesus is recounted as entering Jerusalem just prior to the pilgrimage festival of Passover, at which he is arrested, but that the people are recorded as tossing palm branches and saying, “Hoshana! Hoshana!” which are aspects of the pilgrimage festival of Sukkot (which ended a couple of weeks ago).
I have heard that some scholars regard this telescoping of these two festivals which occur at opposite ends of the year as being a symbolic indication of the “end of time” which the coming of the Messiah was supposed to herald.
New “Social-CONversation Thread Up
re: #110 by Pablo Honey
I keep praying that he will have an epiphany and come to know the Creator. How powerful of a testimony would THAT be??
re: #101 by buzzsawmonkey
Plus the movement to airbrush Columbus Day away.
re: #109 by lobo91
I’m aware that the Presidents were sacrificed for MLK, but I think that looking at the wider picture shows an across-the-board effacement of the actual meaning of federal holidays.
re: #105 by buzzsawmonkey
Greek or Aramaic? I have read disputes over that.
re: #115 by snork
How could that memorial to brutal European hegemony have slipped my mind?
re: #113 by WrathofG-d
About time!
re: #115 by snork
That is because Muslims discovered America!/
re: #120 by vagabond trader
and they came up with the cure for the heartbreak of psoriasis.
re: #79 by Rodan
Well, the early Christians has to think of some way to avoid being fed to the lions!
re: #112 by buzzsawmonkey
You are correct that his parents had to return to their hometown for census and taxes. One easy way to do it was to do it on a major Jewish holiday they were already doing it anyway…
Jews would travel to Jerusalem from all over the world for the Feasts during the Temple period.
That is how the Muslims got the idea of doing the hajj in Mecca.
re: #107 by vapig
as a Jew I must say I always loved and had no trouble at all with Christmas.
re: #121 by Speranza
I’ve heard that someone with a skin condition is a psight for psoriasis.
re: #118 by buzzsawmonkey
We need to get rid of something to make way for Obama day.
/I wish I was kidding.
Why do Muslims worship that Borg ship in Mecca?
re: #105 by buzzsawmonkey
yes the Gospels were written in Greek, a lot of people do not understand that.
re: #103 by Overlook
“And very religious Jews support militant Islam. Naurei Karta are welcome guests in Iran.”
that’s a stretch. Only Neturei Karta supprots Islam because they want to see Israel destroyed. Religious Jews do not support Islam.
re: #58 by Eliana
I remember Mike Wallace of 60 Minutes doing a puff piece in 1975 on the Jews of Syria (as if they could talk freely on camera in that totalitarian dictatorship).
re: #28 by Eliana
Paula Abdul also is very pro israel.
re: #129 by Speranza
There are some other anti-Zionist religious groups too, but the bigger source of friction between religious and secular Israelis is the draft exemption for yeshiva students. Everybody else who wants to go to college does their IDF service first.
re: #132 by snork
Some of the Satmars are hostile towards Zionism but to say that religious Jews are pro Islam is absurd and juts plain dumb.
101. buzzsawmonkey
What do you mean IF??? I’ve been talking about this stuff for years. This is just the time of year that every starts trying to cancel Christmas.
However – getting to the nitty-gritty, Watch out for Thanksgiving. Schools have been cancelling that for ages now. Why? Because WHO were they thankful to?
And does anybody else just want the wiccans to shutup about Holloween? I know we have one here, but come on!!! Ya’ll are just sucking the fun our of everything!
re: #125 by buzzsawmonkey
“I’ve heard that someone with a skin condition is a psight for psoriasis.’
Aaarrrggghhh!
re: #123 by Incognito
That is how the Muslims got the idea of doing the hajj in Mecca.
I always understood that they were hajjing their bets.
re: #43 by mfhorn
I’m not ready to take this proposition on faith, but then I’m not sure it’s the point. That is, I don’t think it matters what the majority believes when you are dealing with thugs. Thugs don’t submit to majority rule. If enough muslims believe in violently enforcing their views on everyone including other muslims, then it really doesn’t matter how large the “peaceful” segment of the ummah is if they are intimidated by the violent ones.
I take the fact that muslim communities in the US don’t rise up on outrage against honour-killings and SJS incidents to mean that however many muslims are inclined to peaceful co-existence, they are in fear for their lives from their co-religionists.
…and that means, as communities, muslim coommunities in the US do not abhor violence committed by muslims. Only when muslims become enthusiastic about enforcement of laws against violence by muslims will I believe in their “peaceful” intent.
re: #58 by Eliana
What tha heck? So instead they hire Abu Achmed Mohammed Husseins… they can’t be biased.
re: #136 by buzzsawmonkey
No, they’re hajjing their butts.
# 139 snork
Yes, they do, and they look quite spiffy in their SS uniforms.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1977-137-20%2C_Bosnische_SS-Freiwillige_beim_Gebet.jpg
re: #103 by Overlook
You need to correct yourself from this untruth.
Neturei Karta is a microscopically small portion of the religious Jewish world that has been disavowed by most of the rest of the religious Jewish world.
Their rabbis aren’t real rabbis per the rest of the Jewish world, also.
They have been ex-communicated from the religious Jewish world.
Please don’t say something like the above again.
re: #3 by Rodan
Six Degrees fails to account for situations like the Minneapolis Somalias that enlist for violent jihad.
Or for the cause that first generation immigrants are likely to love the US even though it is difficult to live in. 2nd generations and 3rd that don’t assimilate become extremely alienated person who are ripe for violent jihad.
And where Six Degrees likes to make the excuse that Dearborn is being extra helpful it is also likely the area is also the source of the problem.
We need some local mayors and state legislators to redefine what Islam is. Create a central islamic authority in the US and define it without the violence and remove sharia from it. Maybe from someone who got their Imanship from the Universal Church of Life.
re: #138 by m
This is exactly what happens.
It’s crazy!
re: #111 by Incognito
Chinese have this old saying. Whereever there is smoke there are Chinese.
re: #123 by Incognito
Wasn’t Galilee sorta of the Berkely, California of it’s day?
re: #146 by orangecrush
I don’t know. I don’t remember reading anything about hydraulic scrota in the bible.
re: #141 by Eliana
I should have inserted the word “some” before “very religious” – but I was responding to Rodan.
No untruth. Naturei Karta is very religious. There are other religious Jews who have different political and religious ideas. There are secular Jews who are anti-Semites. I do not know who are “real” Jews.(Excommunication is a whole other discussion.) If one’s mother is Jewish, one is Jewish. I am of Jewish parents, but am atheist.
Please do not tell me what I can write. As I have said to song and dance man, I do not ever intend personally to insult, but the zone of sensitivity cannot be so wide as to preclude non-religious discussion of religion.
re: #148 by Overlook
You generalized about “VERY religious Jews” being supportive of “MILITANT ISLAM” (which is a LIE when it comes to generalizing about very religious Jews).
Just now, you called Naturei Karta “VERY religious Jews” while calling other religious Jews simply “religious Jews” as if Naturei Karta are messed up in their thinking because they are MORE religious than other religious Jews. They aren’t.
ALL Orthodox Jews are “VERY religious Jews.”
When religious Jews follow the mitzvot, we/they are VERY religious Jews. VERY religious Jews DO NOT support militant Islam as a rule. Please get this through your head!!
The Naturei Karta are an extreme group that is NOT even regarded (by other Orthodox Jewish groups) as having real rabbis since they don’t go to real rabbi schools or get ordained by real rabbis in the Orthodox Jewish world. They are real Jews but their sect has been disavowed and ex-communicated. They are someone’s crazy Uncle Fred that isn’t allowed at family gatherings anymore.
You seem to be testing the boundaries on what it takes to be insensitive every time I see you talking about Judaism, though.
Last night, you REPEATEDLY referred to the Bible as “MYTHS.” Your repeated questions seemed to be opportunities to keep saying this word (”MYTH”).
Then you REPEATEDLY asked people why the “MYTHS” were written this way (as if PEOPLE had written these “MYTHS” and we should know why other people had done this).
You go out of your way to say that you don’t mean to offend, but then you go out of your way to test the boundaries on what it takes to offend.
Obviously, you have some issues against Judaism.
Sorry to hear it. If you want to know about Judaism, it’s ok to ask people about it.
Making negative generalizations about very religious Jews (Orthodox Jews) is offensive. There are Orthodox Jews here on this board.
I didn’t order you not to do this anymore, but I did ask you with the word “Please.”
If you’re going to keep attacking Orthodox Judaism, I will call you on it.
I wish that you wouldn’t keep doing it, however.
If you’re comfortable in your atheism, why do you need to keep confronting Judaism?
re: #149 by Eliana
If you follow the thread, you will see that it was another commenter (#34, Buzzsawmonkey, an observant Jew), not I, who made a point about more non-religious Jews being against Christmas than observant ones.
Rodan (#52) made a point about Religious Jews (a generalization)and stated that “Real Jews and Real Christians” respect each other.
I came in (#103) to make the point that very religious – as opposed to Rodan’s “Religious Jews” and Buzz’s “observant Jews” and “secular Jews” – also support militant (religious)Islam.
The thrust of my post was that the degree of observancy, does not protect the believer from making unfortunate associations (along with benign ones). I have also acknowledged, that I should have used the word “some”, although in context, I think it was unnecessary.
I went on to say, in briefer form, that the there are some in all three monotheisms who support the anti-defamation of religion law, which (by implication) I am against.
I do not “confront” Judaism. I admire it. You are confronting my conversation about religion and politics. I take it, from your defense of your religion and your view that I am “confronting” it, that you would indeed approve of a law that prevents “defamation” of religion – and, further, that defamation would be in the eye of the religious.
That is greatly to be regretted.
As an orthodox Jew, you are required to view the Bible as the word of God. I do not. Scholars have convincingly written about when and for whom it was written (by many PEOPLE), and that it was a collection of myths (some shared by other cultures – the flood, for example), poetry, oral tradition and, quite probably, propaganda required by contemporary political concerns.
It is not disrespectful of Judaism to assume some knowledge of this scholarship, and to ask questions from the historical, rather than religious point of view.
If you cannot answer the historical questions, or do not want to, then please do not. Referring to the Bible as a source for religious answers is talking at cross purposes, for the purpose of being cross.
And as for whether Naturei Karta has been excommunicated – it is irrelevant. The non-Jewish world takes them at their own description of themselves as (very, even the only truly) religious Jews. There are other Jews (orthodox) who are prepared to team up with Christians (of whatever denomination) and Muslims (Sunni and Shia) to protect religion from being defamed. Many multicultural leftists – including secular Jews – approve of such censorship.
I am not “testing” the boundaries of my insensitivity. I am not looking for Mommy to slap me down. How absurd. Don’t shove your corns under my foot to trip me up, and then scream “ouch”. And then tell me not to walk this way again, lest you cry “ouch” again.
I am comfortable with free speech, and free inquiry. I hope you are too.
re: #150 by Overlook
You lied by omission, however, in the way you smeared “very religious Jews” by using the actions of a very few disavowed religious Jews to smear MILLIONS OF VERY RELIGIOUS ORTHODOX JEWS.
You are also wallowing so deeply in your own ignorance that you don’t know what it means to be a “very religious Jew” in the first place.
Rodan’s “Religious Jews” and Buzz’s “observant Jews” ARE “VERY RELIGIOUS JEWS!”
You took a sect the size of a coffee klatch and you smeared MILLIONS OF VERY RELIGIOUS OBSERVANT JEWS WITH THEIR ACTIONS.
You did this as payback for what Rodan and Buzz said about “secular Jews”?
AGAIN – I ask you, if you’re so doggone comfortable with your atheism, then why the heck do you feel so emotionally violent about a religion that means nothing to you?
re: #150 by Overlook
You smear Judaism unfairly.
Militant Islam is a mass murdering venture and you smear MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of innocent “very religious Jews” with the actions of a few very religious Jews who haven’t even gone to rabbinical school.
If your feelings were hurt by what Rodan and Buzz said about non-religious Jews and their views toward Christmas, it doesn’t justify smearing millions and millions of very religious Jews with accusations that they support mass murderers in militant Islam.
You smeared millions and millions of people you don’t know simply to get back at a couple of people who wrote comments you didn’t like about Jews and Christmas.
This doesn’t amount to admiring Judaism.
re: #151 by Eliana
I take no offense at anything that is written about secular Jews, or atheists. I take no such statements personally. Why would I? They were not intended to goad or insult me. Who am I to them, in any case? A nic, who sometimes writes posts worth responding to. I enjoy comments by Buzz and Rodan very much. I happen not to like Christmas (icky), though I wish my Christian friends the merries without compunction and am always up for a good stuffed goose. And I think public creches are entirely harmless. Also happy to have the pledge include the words “Under God”, and am grateful for Christian support of Israel.
Not being offended, I was certainly not lashing out to smear MILLIONS of Orthodox Jews in some pathetic – and cretinous – act of revenge. It is not I who exhibits emotional violence. High emotional drama by pseudonyms in virtual space has always been a source of wonder – and entertainment – to me.
Some of my best family are very religious. My great-grandfather was a rabbi. My studies of comparative religion have shown Judaism as a moral and cultural step forward. Spinoza is a hero. But sure, I do not deny ignorance of Judaism and everything else.
But all that aside – and there is no reason for biography to be believed on the intertubes – my attitude to religion is that it is a set of ideas. Ideas may be good or bad. Bad ones may only be defeated by other ideas. Many a belief can survive persecution but not critical examination. My interest in not in persecution, but critical examination.
re: #153 by Overlook
You are failing miserably at this, however.
Judaism isn’t a tyrannical religion that cuts off hands or heads when people go astray (G-d forbid) nor does Judaism honor kill when their own family members do something disgraceful or impossibly goofy.
The Naturei Karta fall into the disgraceful and impossibly goofy category, but no one is going to end their existence. They remain disgraceful and impossibly goofy without getting any support from the rest of the vast and very very religious Orthodox Jewish world.
They do make headlines (entirely because they are disgraceful and impossibly goofy). Their numbers are incredibly small and they have no legitimate rabbis who went to rabbinical school.
Bringing them up was a cheap shot on your part and it shows a horrible shallowness when it comes to your thinking about what you regard as a set of ideas.
Consider this…
There was a guy in Denver who used to go to all the Denver Bronco games wearing nothing but an orange barrel (even in the dead of winter). How he managed not to freeze to death was a mystery, but his barrel shaped fat body might have had something to do with it. He was always in the newspapers when he showed up. The national TV coverage often showed him naked at the games in his orange barrel, too.
He was an oddity. He wasn’t the sport of NFL Football itself or the state of football fans or indicative of the weirdness of people who live in Denver or Colorado or America or the planet Earth.
He was an oddity.
The Naturei Karta are an oddity, too.
It’s why they’re in the news.
They have nothing to do with representing very religious Orthodox Jews in this world.
Mentioning them was a cheap shot on your part.
Now, now. Do not pretend that I was conflating Naturei Karta with all orthodox Jews, or suggesting that they represent all religious Jews. I selected them because they were a group of religious Jews who made common cause with Islamists. Religiosity per se is no guard against foolish political alliances.
I would not know which group of orthodox Jews to choose to represent all such. Nor do I think that there is an equivalent figure in Judaism to the pope who could be said to be a spokesman for the whole of orthodoxy. I am certain that “Eliana” is not such a spokesman.
If I was getting at anybody it would be those who support for religious reasons laws which would stifle debate on religion.
This exchange has revealed only that you are determined to feel persecuted – for yourself and on behalf of millions of religious Jews, already – by me.
With enemies like me, you won’t need friends.
re: #155 by Overlook
This is precisely what you implied.
You smeared “very religious Jews” in general, then you differentiated between “religious Jews” and (your term) “very religious Jews” while smearing religious Jews and very religious Jews in general again.
At least you’ve made it quite clear that you are NOT looking to do a critical examination of ideas.
You’re trying to justify your own non-religious choices.
Again, I have to ask, if you’re so comfortable with your own atheism, then why do you need to confront (and smear) Judaism?
Surely atheism is satisfying enough for you on its own.
I cannot help your (mis)reading of implications. I have pointed out my intentions, my meaning and the context of my word usage. Let me assure you, that had I wanted to smear all religious Jews, all very religious Jews, mediumly religious Jews, the hardly-at-all religious Jews who do not pray to God but a collection of “forces” I would not do it by implication. Implication is not precise.
You merely repeat the accusations that justify your perverse and exaggerated offense-taking. I shall not answer them again.
Your question, asked so earnestly, is bizarre. “Comfort” in my atheism would not preclude confronting religion of any stripe, and the “need” to do it would depend on the terms of the debate. But this answer – a statement of the obvious – is not an admission that I either needed to, or did, confront Judaism in this instance.
Atheists are not children making bad “choices” in their behavior. I am not acting out. I implore you to put away your Parenting Guide as a way of dealing with interlocutors you disagree with. I chose conservative politics, as did you, through reason. I chose not to believe in God the same way.
Atheism does not “satisfy” the appetite for reasoned discourse, it increases it.
re: #157 by Overlook
If it keeps leading you to take distorted stands against things you know little or nothing about rather than investigating what it is that you want to discuss, then you’re on the wrong track.
re: #158 by Eliana
I see. Thank you. I look forward to the next encounter.
re: #159 by Overlook
Something to keep in mind is that the Jewish people’s miraculous history as a people includes being an intelligent, educated people known for excellence in science for many centuries throughout the exile.
All during this time, the Jewish people only survived as a people by having the religion. There are no records of secular Jews having histories going back hundreds of years as secular Jews. The Jewish people only exist today because of the religion.
Maimonides (rabbi, philosopher, doctor, scientist) said 850 years ago that the Jewish people are required to use logic and rational thinking to know (not believe, but KNOW) that G-d exists. Blind leaps of faith are not allowed.
Think whatever you want, but please keep in mind that Orthodox Jewish physicists in the 21st Century are using their intelligence and rational thought to know that G-d exists and to work in science with no contradictions between the two.
Jews are required to use rational thought in Judaism and it does work.
If prominent Orthodox Jewish physicists can do this in 2009 and it works, then suggestions to the contrary don’t really hold up.
Best wishes, in any case.
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