Thank G-d: once again it is Friday, and accordingly for Jews this means the beginning of the Holy Shabbat. Every week, Jews read a portion of the Torah and study it. Highly pertinent to many on this blog, this week we are reading a highly contentious portion around some parts called Bereishit (”In the beginning”) (Genesis 1:1-6:8).
The Creation of the World, and Adventures of the First Humans
Dateline: December 1968
From his window he could watch the blue orb of planet earth getting smaller and smaller. Looming in front of him in all its detail was a giant moon. Astronaut Frank Borman of Apollo 8 was filled with emotion, as he drew closer and closer to the fulfillment of one of man’s greatest dreams of landing on the moon. As the lunar module orbited, the crew could perceive the moon in its pristine state, untouched by human hands, exactly as it left the hands of its Creator. (One could imagine Adam opening his eyes for the first time and viewing a pristine Earth with the same awe.)
Borman wanted to convey this feeling to everyone glued to their TVs and radios, just so they could in some sense share the experience of this milestone in history. What text could express this feeling? What human poet or author could capture in words that awesome feeling of the smallness of man and the vastness of the universe?
To the ears of billions of earthlings, Borman declared, “In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth!” The first chapter of Genesis was read on that historical day to all mankind. (In contrast to the Cosmonauts who orbited the Earth in Sputnik and proclaimed, “We went to Heaven and didn’t find God!”) This is the beginning of the story of man and his world.
Despite false claims to the contrary, Creation is deeply rooted in Torah. The following are a few exceptionally general, and basic statements of Jews regarding Creation.
“IN THE BEGINNING” – INTRODUCTION TO THE TORAH
Judaism believes that the Bible is a Divine book. Just as a human author generally writes about topics that interest him, we can similarly assume that the Divine Author of the Torah writes about things that interest Him. Here’s a bird’s eye view of the opening chapters of the Torah:
(1) “In the beginning God created Heaven and Earth” (Genesis 1:1). What a contrast between the vast endless heaven containing countless stars, and one tiny speck in the universe called Planet Earth! Yet the following verse begins, “And the Earth was…” and the rest of the book focuses on Earth. Conclusion: God is interested in Earth!
(2) The six days of creation are described in detail. The trees and grass, the animals, fish, birds, and insects. Then was created one human. What a contrast between the vast expanse of planet Earth, and one individual person! Yet from this point on, the Torah focuses exclusively on humans (and NOT on the trees or insects). Conclusion: God is interested in humanity!
(3) After expounding upon the first human, the Torah lists 10 generations with no events recorded. These generations evidently did not interest the author and are only included for the purpose of chronology. Finally we find the passage, “and Noah was a righteous man” (Genesis 6:9), followed by an entire section concerning Noah. Conclusion: God is interested in “righteous people”!
(4) This is followed again by a list of names for chronological purposes. Another 10 generations go by, until we come to Abraham our Father. Abraham is 75 years old at the time the Torah speaks of him (more details of his youth are found in the oral tradition). From this point on, the Torah records exclusively the story of Abraham’s life and then that of his descendents – right up until the emergence of the Jewish people. The rest of the Torah recounts God’s relationship with the Jewish people. Conclusion: God is interested in the Jewish people who undertake a unique mission, to be a “light unto the nations,” to teach the world about spirituality and our Creator. (Rabbi Avigdor Miller)
There is a lot covered in the above article (many debated issues) so, if interested, I highly recommend the above link.
An antidote on the subject of Creation from a Jewish source.
“A disbeliever once asked Rabbi Akiva, ‘Who created the world?’ ‘The Almighty,’ replied Rabbi Akiva. ‘Prove it,’ demanded the disbeliever. Rabbi Akiva replied, ‘Come back tomorrow.’
“When the man returned on the following day, Rabbi Akiva asked him, ‘What are you wearing?’ ‘A robe,’ replied the man. ‘Who made it?’ asked Rabbi Akiva. ‘The weaver,’ said the man. ‘I don’t believe you! Prove it,’ demanded Rabbi Akiva.
” ‘That is ridiculous. Can’t you tell from the fabric and design that a weaver made this garment?’ answered the man. Rabbi Akiva then responded, ‘And you – can you not clearly tell that God made the world?’
“After the disbeliever left, Rabbi Akiva explained to his students, ‘Just as a house was obviously built by a builder and a garment obviously sewn by a tailor, so was the world (which follows a natural order) obviously made by a Creator!’ ”
{The source}
Creation from a Christian Source:
(Author Note: This Thread is not to a space for name-calling, personal attacks, angry vitriol, etc. I expect those who are small minded, and intellectually constrained on this issue to be discussed, but I encourage you to please do so politely, and factually! In short, this is a Thread about G-d – so act in His image!)
I wish the Jews a blessed Holy Shabbat, and to all else a meaningful weekend and day(s) of worship!
Bereshit: Shabbat is the spiritual soul of the world
by Rabbi Ya’aqob Menashe (edited for clarity by WrathofG-d)In the Torah portion of Bereshit we read that G-d rested on the Seventh day and blessed it and sanctified it.
The Alshikh Haqqadosh mentions that anything physical that is devoid of a spiritual dimension will surely perish. A perfect example is a human being who cannot survive once the spiritual soul leaves him. This is true of all that G-d created in this world.
The world that G-d created was purely physical and would, therefore, have not been able to exist. But when the Holy One Blessed Be He, imbued the abundance of holiness and blessing of the holy Shabbat into the world, it now had its required element of spirituality to permit it to survive. As it says in Ki Thissa: “Shabbat Vayinafash” (He ceased from work and was rested) [lit. and obtained a soul]).
The world, at first, was like a body lacking a soul. But what gave it a soul and the ability to exist was the Shabbat, which gave abundance and holiness to everything that was created.
Tags: Bereishit, Christianity, Creation, G-d, Judaism, Love, Science, Shabbat
The Above video doesn’t seem to be working so I updated with this link: http://www.aish.com/tp/b/shmuz/63956947.html
I love it Wrath of G-d!
Wrath of G-d, we know that Sabbath begins sundown on Fridays. What happens when you live in Northern Norway or the Arctic during winter time when is dark all day and all night or even in summertime when it is sunny 24 hrs a day?
Just wondering!
LOL
Revii!
Beautiful. The first pic remains me of Maxfield Parrish.
Thank G-d it’s Friday!
re: #3 by Incognito
OR, you’re on a orbiting space station with NO 24 hour cycle sun-up sun-down.
Rabbi Akiva is a creationist???? Gasp!!! What will Selrahc think????
re: #7 by Peter
http://www.ascentofsafed.com/cgi-bin/ascent.cgi?Name=t03q24
They use the time at the nearest established Jewish community. Astronauts use the Houston time.
re: #3 by Incognito
That is actually a great question that I do not have an answer to.
However, if I were to guess (and this is ONLY a guess) I would imagine it is similar to when Jews are on an airplane and have to pray. (depending on which direction you are going you might never get a sunrise/set for a couple days. A relgious Jew would avoid this problem for Shabbat by not flying, but can’t avoid morning, and evening prayers)
I believe they use the time that it usually is sunrise, or sunset. Ie: you figure that sunrise is “Normally” at 6:00 or so, so you pray / begin/end Shabbat then.
THIS IS ONLY A GUESS HOWEVER! Great question!
re: #8 by Incognito
Somehow, it will end up with the Rabbi being called a Nazi.
“This Thread is not to a space for name-calling, personal attacks, angry vitriol, etc. I expect those who are small minded, and intellectually constrained on this issue to be discussed, but I encourage you to please do so politely, and factually! In short, this is a Thread about G-d – so act in His image”
soooo…its not really and open thread in the truest sense of the word…i dont want to offend.
re: #12 by coldwarrior
You can say whatever you want to. It was merely a suggestion/request. I’m not going to ban you for not heeding my request, although I might call you on them.
As usual, your comments/statements reflect you.
re: #10 by WrathofG-d
I was just teasing ya know! They do have the time for lighting up candle on the Jewish calendars now and so you do not have to watch for the sun. We got a huge mountain facing West here and so the question regarding sundown, is it when the sun is hidden below the mountain, or is it when it is below the horizon plane on the Pacific Ocean?
LOL.
It is all RELATIVE!
re: #11 by livefreeor die
No Rabbi Akiva is obviously using a Wedge Theory to “bring my kids to Jesus”.
/
re: #13 by WrathofG-d
copy that…i’ll stay in the basement
I never have subscribed to the wedge theory. Prefer a nine-iron myself.
Richard Dawkins: Creationists Don’t Read Books
just a simple hymm
Amazing Grace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHpye0M34JQ
So does this mean that all of Creation is a Jewish Conspiracy against Evolutionists?
Heh™
re: #15 by WrathofG-d
Ha!
And like, how could one explain there are Jews in the Discovery Institute if the Wedge Document is so?
re: #5 by vagabond trader
I thought the same thing.
It has the feeling of a painting he might do in Africa.
All that orange.
I like your comparison between American Astronauts and Soviet Cosmonauts.
That Frank Borman story was very captivating. I could imagine myself experiencing his view and could come to no other conclusions than he reached
re: #21 by Incognito
What is often missed by those who try to create a wedge between Christians and Jews regarding the issue of Creation, etc. is that the major reason that Christians even believe in the Creation story is because they got it from the Torah. Period!
Sure, are there Christians in the D.I. who wish to convert Jews? I would imagine there are. But then again, I presume that most Christians would like to convert Jews. That is a part of Christianity as far as I’m concerned.
Happily, it seems that lately Christians are backing off this, and accepting the common ground Jews and Christians have (and our separate roles), and not pushing to convert us so much therefore.
G-d made Jews as Jews. He knew what He was doing.
But, the stupid claims by some that Creation is a Christian conspiracy to trick Jews, is just that.
Judaism knew of/believed in Creation long before there was ever even one Christian!
_______________________________________________________
On Topic:
http://www.signatureinthecell.com/
I remember that Apollo flight and it was mesmerizing hearing those words from space.
re: #20 by Iron Fist
Hey IF. How the hell are ya’?
A hearty hello to all, btw.
In the beginning G-d made the Heaven and Earth…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl31is_RgP8
I heard Glenn Beck is a creationist.
re: #25 by vagabond trader
re: #18 by CloudyDay
Richard Dawkins: Creationists Don’t Read Books
LOL, I’d lay almost any amount of money out to bet that I read more pages (a more accurate measure) in a year than Dawkins does.
It’s the be-Scotching Hour! Pour on, boys!
re: #24 by WrathofG-d
“I presume that most Christians would like to convert Jews. That is a part of Christianity as far as I’m concerned.”
It’s the great commission, preach the gospel to all living creatures..that would include the Jew as well.
re: #18 by CloudyDay
He’s not seen my Audible account, has he.
Been thinking of getting his book, “Greatest Show..” just for the intellectual exercise. Has anyone here read it?
I don’t watch the “Kate, Jon Plus Eight” reality show, but I sometimes see headlines about the couple.
Based upon what little I’ve seen, I don’t care for either one. They both come across as being greedy and selfish.
TLC sues Jon Gosselin for breach of contract
re: #32 by davehm
..that would include the Jew as well.
Can we have one designate whose job it is to listen, and the rest of us can be left alone?
Dual covenant Christian theology. The sine qua non of Jewish Christian dialogue.
re: #34 by CloudyDay
What is worse is that they are both probably making more money fighting out the divorce then they did as a family unit.
There is no one to blame for that than us – society!
re: #18 by CloudyDay
I throw out Dawkins,
After midnight
Out in the moonlight
On his own toes he can chew
I throw out Dawkins
After midnight
Please take him…do.
Very nice!
selrahC would, of course, call everyone here ‘anti-science’ and morons.
As far as ‘conversion’ goes, sure, I’d like to convert Jews. Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and Athiests, too.
BUT
I’m not going to ‘force’ it on anyone. I’ll share my beliefs and let you share yours.
If someone converts from Christianity, I’m not going to go out and demand they convert back or face death, either.
re: #35 by buzzsawmonkey
I have a few people I would like to put on that list……
re: #35 by buzzsawmonkey
The Jews…Jewish people, descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob..
pardon my English if I didn’t make that clear.
re: #18 by CloudyDay
So what are the 5 things I’m reading now, if they’re not books?
re: #35 by buzzsawmonkey
Can we have one designate whose job it is to listen, and the rest of us can be left alone?
How about the guy at the end of the clip? I suppose you’ve seen it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de198QqKcG4&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_fresh+div-HM
And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the firmament of the heavens.”
http://www.baliwaves.com/wp-content/gallery/feb-mar-april-09/430.jpg
re: #31 by calcajun
Laphroaig?
re: #40 by WrathofG-d
As someday it may happen that a victim must be found
I’ve got a little list
I’ve got a little list
Of society’s offenders who might well be underground
And who never would be missed
They never would be missed
There’s the pestilential nuisances who write for autographs
All people who have flabby hands and irritating laughs
And all third persons who on spoiling tete-a-tetes insist
They’d none of ‘em be missed
They’d none of ‘em be missed
He’s got them on the list,
He’s got them on the list,
And I don’t think they’d be missed,
I’m sure they’d not be missed!
etc.
–Gilbert & Sullivan, “The Mikado”
re: #39 by mfhorn
Good point, asking someone to receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savour can not be forced on anyone, the God of love does not force himself on anyone (what kind of love would that be?) so like wise neither should His disciples.
re: #46 by buzzsawmonkey
Its great to have you here.
re: #35 by buzzsawmonkey
I agree with Davem, but I don’t think we are required to harp on it. I think anyone that would happen to have an internet connection has probably heard of Christians before, so while I’d discuss it if you asked, I’d think it boorish to bring up direct appeals to conversion here.
re: #38 by buzzsawmonkey
For a sec I thought you were doing this one:
re: #39 by mfhorn
“Very nice!
selrahC would, of course, call everyone here ‘anti-science’ and morons.”
We can’t all be creationists here. I sure am not.
re: #29 by WrathofG-d
The atheist Madalyn Murray O’Hare complained to NASA about astronauts reading from the Bible.
re: #49 by Nikis Knight
I think anyone that would happen to have an internet connection has probably heard of Christians before
crisssss….chuns?
Excuse, please. I not understand.
/kidding, kidding.
re: #47 by davehm
Oh I think there are, or have been, some out there who do ‘force’ conversion, or try to.
Go back 150 years and look at how some groups treated the American Indians. Today, you have nutcases like Fred Phelps who seem to believe that ONLY their church (as opposed to the broader ‘Church’) have the answers. There are people who go around with an ‘in your face’ attitude that I think drive people away.
Fortunately, they’re in a very small minority.
re: #49 by Nikis Knight
It would behoove you to learn a bit about dual covenant Christian theology. Not all Christians believe Jews have it wrong and are going to hell for their beliefs. If that is your belief you and I have very little to say to one another.
I want to see Fred Phelps in Thunderdome with Richard Dawkins.
And then we can match for who plugs the winner.
re: #52 by vagabond trader
Not surprising.
But for me the bottom line is that there is no win/win.
If you remove G-d from society, you are pushing Atheism on Religious people. If you push G-d in society you are pushing Region on Atheists.
The forced/legislated absence of Religion from society is no better than the legislated inclusion of Religion.
Saying that forced exclusion is neutral is a lie.
Accordingly, I root for my team at that point.
re: #55 by Moe Katz
We’ve had this conversation before. Apparently you have so little to say to me you feel you must repeat it.
re: #44 by IslandLibertarian
In Gen. 7:11 the fountains of the great deep were broken up…I’m still trying to figure where Moses got the scuba equipment to make that observation!
re: #51 by Moe Katz
Nor am I.
re: #55 by Moe Katz
Not all Christians believe Jews have it wrong and are going to hell for their beliefs.
I go to hell for my beliefs. I bring ‘em back and sell ‘em at flea markets, and on eBay.
re: #58 by Nikis Knight
Your view is deeply offensive to me. That certainly bears repetition
re: #56 by buzzsawmonkey
Two kooks in a cage…I’ll get the popcorn.
re: #61 by buzzsawmonkey
Buzz..it’s their unbelief that puts them there.
re: #62 by Moe Katz
Your view is deeply offensive to me.
…and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
re: #62 by Moe Katz
You are thin skinned, apparently, and haven’t established why I should care about your particular feelings.
Does this mean that LGF1’s beloved Kindle is in trouble?
Google Plans to Take on Amazon
Google Editions Embraces Universal E-book Format
re: #55 by Moe Katz
I have never been taught that the Jews were wrong and were going to hell. To me, Christianity just picked up where Judaism stopped…..with Christ as the Messiah.
re: #54 by mfhorn
That’s not biblical Christianity or Christianity at all for that matter.
re: #62 by Moe Katz
This is an honest question (I really am not looking to pick a fight):
Why does it bother you that Christians think you are going to hell?
I’m a Jew and what they “think” on this point, doesn’t bother me at all.
re: #60 by Empire1
Thanks for confirming that I’m not alone here. As an aside, I’d prefer the company of the creationist here to those who abused them on the other site.
re: #52 by vagabond trader
Maybe she became one and that’s why no one can find her big fat arse.
re: #65 by buzzsawmonkey
Hillarious!
……hi diddle, diddle…..HEY
http://player.play.it/player/aolPlayer.html?v=4.7.121&ur=1&us=1&id=838
re: #68 by NoThreat2U
I have never been taught that the Jews were wrong and were going to hell.
Aw, c’mon. Everybody goes to hell at one time or another. That’s how you get all the cool stickers on your luggage.
re: #70 by WrathofG-d
Wrath, that’s a vast subject. Maybe you and I should get on Table9 direct chat sometime, or even on the phone—I have unlimited long distance in North America. We can probably reach some broad understanding, but not here. And I’m preparing to go work out at the gym.
re: #74 by buzzsawmonkey
Lame-OH lol
re: #75 by Moe Katz
Fair enough.
re: #55 by Moe Katz
Jesus Christ made Christianity exclusive, not those who follow Him.
From the book of John, chapter 14, verse 6, spoken by Jesus Christ:
Gotta beat sundown, gang. ‘Bye.
It’s Creation Week in the Torah!
re: #79 by buzzsawmonkey
Really? Someone should do a thread on that!
re: #66 by Nikis Knight
The fact you don’t care how I feel about it confirms that you are drawing on the tradition of replacement theology—the wellspring of Christian antisemitism. You have a lot to learn about your own religion in its modern form.
re: #78 by CloudyDay
The same prescription for you: Learn about replacement vs dual covenant Christian theologies.
re: #71 by Moe Katz
No, you’re definitely not alone. (Sorry my earlier reply was so brief, but it’s hard typing with a dachshund between me and the keyboard!)
And I agree, I prefer the company of the creationists to that of their abusers elsewhere.
re: #38 by buzzsawmonkey
You do know that Patsy’s gonna reach up from the grave and whack ya’ one for that.
re: #79 by buzzsawmonkey
Shabbat Shalom, Buzz!
re: #78 by CloudyDay
Interesting, Jesus Christ is exclusive yet inclusive at the same time.
John 14:6 He’s the only way, that excludes all other “spiritual leaders”
Matt.11:28 all are invited
re: #28 by tqcincinnatus
You could take that so much further.
Let me try…
Glenn Beck is a creationist who visits Robert Spencer’s “Jihad Watch” Daily, and he swears that Global Warming is a bunch of bunk.
In his spare time, Beck likes to collect celtic crosses, and his favorite Star Wars characters are wookies.
Someone else here could probably improve on that.
re: #83 by Empire1
Give doggie a kiss for me
I’m going off topic here for a minute & I apologize as I was off for a while.
After going over the Mao thread over at LGF , I am struck by what a deadly, self-destructive comination of mean & stupid that CJ is.
You can correct an error, but there is no cure for stupid.
He fails to grasp simple concepts & has no ability for abstract thinking.
Ok, back to your regularly scheduled thread.
Nope.
The fact that I don’t care about your offense is indicative of the fact that I desest the victim mentality of our liberal culture, wherein personal hurt at imagined slights is taken as authority. I utterly reject such facile thinking.
The fact that you take offense to a politly worded explanation of why I chose not to push my beliefs on you, despite great affection for Jewish people, shows that your feelings are largely irrational, and thus I have little reason to regard them unless you demonstrate a rational reason for the offense.
You have a lot to learn about your ability to read my mind. Hint–it is greatly lacking.
The SFV (San Francisco Version) of the Bible says, “And G-d said, let there be Light in the Loafers…”
And with that, I leave you.
re: #86 by davehm
Yes, absolutely – on the one hand, Jesus mentions that He is the only way to God, but He taught that all people, regardless of religious background (or lack thereof) need Him, and He taught that all are welcome to approach Him and accept Him as Savior. He will not turn away any who turn to Him as Savior.
Hey folks. I am a christian but I am not the kind of Christian who cares if anyone else is or not.
re: #83 by Empire1
You better, or I’m going to label you a Anti-G-d, Darwinists and ban you!
/
re: #82 by Moe Katz
Replacement theology is wrong…the fact that Israel stands as a nation proves it and if some of those replacement type Christians would read their bibles more closely, they would see that God has a plan for the Jewish nation in the last days.
re: #54 by mfhorn
Today, you have nutcases like Fred Phelps
If Fred Phelps is a Christian, then I’m the pope of Chilitown.
re: #87 by CloudyDay
Glenn Beck is LDS or what is usually called Mormon.
re: #55 by Moe Katz
No, actually, they got it backward.
[Note: you have to wait until the end.]
re: #87 by CloudyDay
Looks good in a Nazi/East German uniform
Cries on cue
Looks a little like “Heat Miser” from “Year Without a Santa Claus”.
need any more.
re: #82 by Moe Katz
The same prescription for you: Learn about replacement vs dual covenant Christian theologies.
It depends on what your definition of those two terms is.
OT-
Maybe I’m being paranoid but I went to my list of bookmarked “Favorites” and FoxNews had been deleted. Poof. Gone. Very strange. I checked to make sure I hadn’t accidentally dragged it into a different position.
Anyone else with Windows Explorer have that problem today?
For some of the new Netizens, I offer the following that you might have missed around these parts by not being here:
Strange Bedfellows: Communism & Evolution
http://www.littlegreenfootballs2.com/2009/02/04/strange-bedfellows-communism-evolution/
Strange Bedfellows: LGF, The Progressive Machine, & The Communist Party
http://www.littlegreenfootballs2.com/2009/07/29/strange-bedfellows-lgf-the-progressive-machine-the-communist-party/
re: #91 by buzzsawmonkey
loafers..bread or shoes?
OT.
If its not been mentioned, Equable can now be added to the book of the banned.
re: #97 by zaugg
“Glenn Beck is LDS or what is usually called Mormon.”
And I always thought LDS had something to do with
dyslexic acidheads….
re: #88 by Moe Katz
I’ll be happy to.
He’s our first dachsie, and both Mr. Empire and I wish we’d met them before. Talk about personality plus!
re: #82 by Moe Katz
As a Catholic, I understand the replacement part, but Jesus is also part of the triumvirate. God has a plan for the Jews, and is not done with them yet. The Spirit of God inside me tells me so.
Peace to all. I give thanks to all here for new sense of community we have.
3 Charles
Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:50:50am replyquote 3downupreport
my kindle just exploded and blew my cock off, if any lizards see a small cocktail sausage twitching on the floor, dont tread on it just give it back to me and i will give you a hat tip.
re: #96 by tqcincinnatus
I was with some guys who poured buckets of water on the Fred Phelps family. Then as they were leaving other folks broke out their windows. I think they made a youtube of it.
re: #97 by zaugg
Glenn Beck is LDS or what is usually called Mormon.
Did he do a lot of LDS back when he was in the anti-war movement at Berkeley?
Charles’ defense of Dunn is that allot of Republicans quote Mao and that Dunn was making a joke, referring to an old Lee Atwater shtick. First off, it’s one thing to quote something that anyone could have said and quite another to flat out say that Mao was one of your favorite political philosophers. The audience laughs at the juxtaposition of Mao and Mother Teresa but I doubt the school kids knew it was in reference to “an old Lee Atwater shtick.” I doubt any of those kids had ever heard of Lee Atwater, I had but couldn’t remember who he was. She then goes into some detail on the lesson they can take from Mao, how to fight your own war. Here’s what she actually says:
“A lot of you have great deal of ability. A lot of you work hard. Put them together and that answers the why not question. There is usually not a good reason. And then the 3rd lesson and tip actually come from two of my favorite political philosophers. Mao Tse-tung and Mother Teresa, not often couple with each other, but the two people that I turn to most to basically deliver a simple point which is you’re going to make choices, you’re going to challenge, you’re going to say why not. You’re going to figure out how to do things that have never been done before. But here’s the deal, these are your choices, they’re no one else’s.
In 1947, when Mao Tse-tung was being challenged within his own party, on his plan to basically take China over, Chiang Kai-shek and the nationalist Chinese held the cities, they had the army, they had the air force, they had everything on their side and people said how can you win, how can you do this, how can you do this against all odds against you, and Mao Tse-tung said “You fight your war and I’ll fight mine.” Think about that for a second, you don’t have to accept the definition of how to do things and you don’t have to follow other people’s choices in the past. Okay. It is about your choices in your path, you fight your own war. You lay out your own path. You figure out what is right for you. You don’t let external definition how good you are internally. You fight your own war. You let them fight their’s. Everybody has their own path.”
As Obama’s mouthpiece she has certainly taken Mao’s lesson to heart, especially against Fox News.
re: #101 by livefreeor die
It’s after 2:00 p.m. and Charles Johnson is messing with your computer.//
Life is good tonight-my oldest is at his first high school homecoming dance with his first girlfriend.
My youngest has started standing and is days away from his first step.
A flagon of meade is in order.
re: #105 by Moe Katz
I regret the few times I did that.
re: #104 by DEZ
Yes, Equable went out in a blaze of Glory.
He smited the Idiot in Chief!
re: #110 by tqcincinnatus
A Star trek IV reference. A whale of a good movie.
re: #111 by Rancher
one of two things.Chuckles has a learning disability or he is a LIAR. I pick the last one. Dunn didn’t just quote Mao. She went into great detail about how she admired him.
re: #115 by RIX
Equable’s exit was truly awe inspiring!
re: #104 by DEZ
He said howdy, sort of, right after the event!
re: #101 by livefreeor die
No problem with fire fox.. hint hint hint
re: #108 by justin case
Dont let the dog eat it, poor thing will get sick.
re: #82 by Moe Katz
Huh? I’m not sure I follow you.
Jews need salvation like Gentiles do, and Jesus said that He is the only way to obtain salvation. I’m not going to stop believing that fact or proclaiming it because some people find that offensive.
I am somewhat familiar with the teaching that Jews supposedly don’t need converting to Christianity, as that line of thinking has been kind of taught by people such as tele-evangelist John Hagee, but I disagree with that view.
The Bible, the New Testament in particular, is very clear that all people, Jews included, need Jesus as Lord and Savior.
Jesus isn’t for Gentiles only.
As I pointed out to you on an older thread, Jesus initially came to the Jews first.
All the first followers of Jesus were… Jewish guys and Jewish ladies.
Most writers of the New Testament were… get ready for it… Jews.
So the idea that Christianity is a “Gentile religion” is not accurate, and I suppose that is how you view Christianity.
The Apostle Paul actually explained that the Gentile believers in Jesus have been grafted into Israel (see New Testament, Romans Chapter 11, especially verses 17-21).
re: #108 by justin case
Hope a dog don’t come along.
re: #115 by RIX
Twas a thing of beauty!
re: #117 by Grimcargo
I though that y’all would be more bothered by the fact that LGF (or someone there) compared admiring Mao to GWB’s statement that he admired Jesus.
Mao = Jesus?
re: #113 by livefreeor die
Happy days for you, we have them spread out like that also.
re: #113 by livefreeor die
My son did that a few weeks ago. 1st suit and first fancy dance with a girl. LOL. Time flies.
re: #119 by snowcrash
Ah, missed that.
thanks!
re: #125 by WrathofG-d
I didnt see that one. But no doubt Im just outraged with all of it.
re: #98 by snork
LMAO—brilliant stand-up by Rowan Atkinson, and nice gag about the Jews being right all along.
Remember when the Christian fundies were driving around with bumper stickers saying “I Found It”? A few Jewish bumper stickers appeared saying, “We Never Lost It!”
re: #118 by livefreeor die
Yes Equables exit was awe inspiring.
He proved himself to be a true artiste in
the area of bitch slapping morons.
Equable, if you are on I salute you & I mean it.
re: #116 by calcajun
A Star trek IV reference. A whale of a good movie.
I was wondering who would be the first to pick up on it!
As a prize, you get a circa 2004 “I went to LGF and all I got was this throbbing
headachememo” T-shirt!re: #125 by WrathofG-d
Doesn’t bother me, they can have their opinion no matter how wrong. I consider myself a Christ follower, not necessarily a “Christian”.
re: #24 by WrathofG-d
AMEN! Wrath of G-d!
re: #126 by Sparky
It’s great, isn’t it! Two years ago I was anticipating the sadness of how fast my first two sons grew up. Then I found out I was pregnant with my third son. It is really a blessing to get to relive all those moments that went by so fast with the first two.
re: #122 by CloudyDay
Keep it to yourself, please.
re: #122 by CloudyDay
Previously I said,
“All the first followers of Jesus were… Jewish guys and Jewish ladies. ”
I think there were one or two Gentile believers early on. (There was a Roman solider who believed and such, but my point was that many of the first followers of Jesus were Jewish people.)
Wrath by the way. I truly loved and enjoyed those videos that you had on the other thread. Made my day when I watched them. Thanks.
re: #136 by Moe Katz
You’re the only who brought it up.
re: #139 by CloudyDay
Should be “you’re the one” not “you’re the only”
For Moe:
http://www.dennisprager.com/columns.aspx?g=db8f9a8b-078a-4cbd-9274-2b95e32f5910&url=a_jew_defends_evangelical_christians
http://www.dennisprager.com/columns.aspx?g=a3d4d23a-324c-4000-bd6f-a8f9b3824916&url=ann_coulter_wants_jews_to_become_christian_–_so_what
re: #138 by Grimcargo
The “G-d of Wonders” videos? (like part 1 I have above?)
Although I (obviously) do not accept/believe the Jesus aspect of those videos,(found near the end) I found them amazing as to their reference to G-d and Creation.
Very inspirational. Highly recommend 1-approx 6.
re: #135 by livefreeor die
We had our fourth, we love all and each is so different from the other. The time does go fast, take them camping and the time seems to stand still for a bit. Did you have “The Talk”?
re: #124 by DEZ
Yup made my day,
There are three things that I have learned in life,
1. Don’t eat yellow snow.
2.Don’t f–k with Marcellus Wallace.
3. Don’t listen to CJ play scientist.
re: #137 by CloudyDay
Luke, Dr. Luke wrote the gospel of Luke and the book of Acts was a gentile.
each to their own yeah, and let god decide who is right when we pass on,
as long as we all follow the golden rule we cant be wrong.
Well I just got home. I stayed in the Office longer than I wanted since I was watching somebody we know self destruct, but Now for more important things. I got a beer ( for Shabbat of course ) and I go to get my Uniform ready for inspection tomorrow. And does anyone else notice Pedro is pitching goose eggs through 7. 1-0 over the Dodgers. And The Yanks go tonight. Shit it is gonna be cold at the Stadium.
re: #137 by CloudyDay
There were gentile followers earlier on in Christ’s ministry.
re: #143 by Sparky
Yes, we had “the talk” with our two oldest when we found out their friends were receiving the talk from their parents. We didn’t want them to get the inaccurate kids’ version of “It”. When we told my oldest (who was 13 at the time) that I was pregnant, he was shocked. On the way to school the next day, he spat out the words, “We’re having a test in health today. It’s on human reproduction.”
He is enchanted with the baby though and has gotten over the embarrassment of his parents having done “It” again.
re: #147 by Nevergiveup
Pedro Martinez? My dad has a baseball signed by him and his two brothers.
Now some music
Adama Kadmon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT0uvI8zZKI
re: #144 by RIX
Hey Opnion!
Wasn’t Marsha Wallace Bob Newharts secretary? Thanks for a beautiful thread Wrath. Shabbot Shalom.
re: #144 by RIX
“2.Don’t f–k with Marcellus Wallace.”
Do you mean figuratively or in the “pawn shop” sense?//
Good evening, y’all!
Blogmacracy Prayer List 10/16
Prayers for thanks, praise, comfort, strength, healing, and hope
Community issues:
Rifqa Bary
American soldier held by the Taliban
Our internet friends
The People of Iran
First responders: firefighters, police, EMTs.
Blessing and protection over all of us during these times.
Our government
Our troops
Israel
Georgia/Ossetia
Gilad Schalit, for his release.
The contractors still held hostage
Thanksgivings
LanceKates: Mother recovering well from hip replacement
Savage nation: fiancée!
vapig: new job
vagabond trader & smokefire: friends Tony and Amy found a new home
m: husband recovered from motorcycle accident
Rozana Saberi: release of American political prisoner in Iran sentenced to 8 years in prison
Health issues:
Bordm & cupcake: friend Marilyn recovering from a stroke
mfhorn: Cara having a difficult pregnancy and her dad (Mike) has serious medical condition,
Purre: cataract
Nikis Knight: wife expecting baby in May & hopes to avoid C-section
Kyrite and unborn baby: high risk pregnancy
realwest
Jaya: father has late Stage 4 lung cancer
Jlfintx: private issues
BBEV: wife not doing well
Speranza: friend Fran facing medical crisis
Tall Old Man
Iron Fist: diabetes
Intrepid: mother with Alzheimer’s
savage nation: Nuke Gingrinch
Nobody: friend with colon cancer
newsjunkie_ky: recovering from eye surgery 8/27
Cloudy Day: sister’s stress issues
The Albatross: blood abnormality and miraculous healing
Intoast: father suffered stroke
Coz: brother-in-law, Shane Williams
vagabond trader: friend’s mother has cancer; going in for chemo.
vapig: recovering from back injury
Family, friend, and life situations:
DaveM: job
Jlfintx: job
Josephine: family has ongoing health problems and their pet is dying
Rides A Pale Horse: niece’s husband, Sgt. Joseph Connor and his unit, Stryker Brigade Combat Team 2-1
Myfiveprincesses: loss of beloved sister
Specila K: getting through work
Canoe Convoy: looking for job after grad school
mjazz: employment
Macker: getting married in 3 weeks!
Intrepid: caring for mother
Lily: healing of family and regaining my strength [plus protection from evil]
Scrat: family, esp, mum, mourning loss of father.
Bar: job
Cloudy Day: strength and comfort
Smokefire: Griswold family
Speranza: friend Melody in danger of losing job
newsjunkie_ky: son-in-law facing lay off
Coz: passing of his sister-in-law, Becky
Zeebeach: for employment
Imtoast: husband looking for a job
GotC: strength and hope
and all the rest of us for whatever strength and protection we need
re: #133 by zaugg
Christian means “Christ follower.”
Unfortunately, the term “Christian” has come to be used (or understood) in a negative way today, by folks who like to equate all Christians to those who profess a belief in Christ but who do not follow Christ’s teachings, such as Fred Phelps, who someone else cited above.
re: #149 by livefreeor die
“has gotten over the embarrassment of his parents having done “It” again.”
I never go over that
guy walkes into a bar with a lizard on his shoulder, and a drunk says, where did you get that disgusting creature from, and the lizard says, raaaaaaaaaaaaacist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfDoqqWdR7A&feature=fvw
One crazy WOMAN!! LORD
re: #150 by Nikis Knight
I didn’t know he had 2 brothers, but that’s the one. He threw a 2 hitter thru 7. Now it’s up to the bullpen.
re: #156 by Nevergiveup
We had left out that part but when I got pregnant, it was kinda obvious.
re: #152 by Truck Monkey
“Wasn’t Marsha Wallace Bob Newharts secretary?”
I’m smiling at the thought of Mrs. Crabapple telling Dr. Hartley to get over the loss of a patient, “You know that stinging you’re feeling, Bob? It’s just your pride f**king with you.”
re: #149 by livefreeor die
Mrs. Monkey and I drove by the place where our oldest was conceived last night. We told him that is where we conceived him. He was mortified. The Mrs. and I could only laugh. It was too funny for words.
Hello Goddess
re: #113 by livefreeor die
Here, have a bottle of my first homebrew ginger mead!
re: #149 by livefreeor die
Hah! Love that look of embarrassment.
re: #39 by mfhorn
What I find humorous is that Jesus died a Jew and was not a convert.
re: #154 by goddessoftheclassroom
Thanks for keeping me on the prayer list.
My Aunt is out of the hospital but might be needing an operation.
148. davehm
Yes I know there were a few Gentile followers of Jesus during His ministry and shortly after; I did a follow-up post to mention it.
Most of the people who first followed Jesus were Jews, which figures, since He came to “save the lost sheep of Israel.”
re: #153 by calcajun
That reminds me of my hockey coach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1aG8LfnWO0
re: #162 by Truck Monkey
re: #165 by Sparky
I finally got so fed up with the dirty looks from him that I snapped, “It’s not like your friends’ parents aren’t doing it also.” That was the end of that.
re: #162 by Truck Monkey
You can point to a specific place? You need to do it more often, then.
/
re: #154 by goddessoftheclassroom
Thanks goddess for putting me on
re: #153 by calcajun
Ugh! I meant figurtively. That pawn shop scene was a little disturbing.
Pulp Fiction imo is a great movie. I have it on DVD.
I love the scene where Travolta & Samuel L Jackson are having coffeee in tarentios kitchen. ” Mmm mmm, mmm, damn Jimmy wherdju git dis coffee? Dis coffee some gourmet shit.”
re: #166 by teacake
Yes, as a Catholic I’ve never lost sight of that. The ruling on the field is being reviewed by some. Too bad there is no instant replay, but faith for each is enough.
re: #170 by Nikis Knight
I could have told him that we did it in his Aunt and Uncles bathroom while we were on vacation, but we decided to settle on the tame narrative instead.
re: #167 by CloudyDay
It’s all good, you me thinking who and when.
re: #114 by zaugg
You sound okay in spite of it
I see buzzsawmonkey made it over from CJ’s torture dungeon.
About time.
Our country is going down the drain.
How the hell did the communists get control of this country?
Absolute madness.
re: #172 by RIX
you sent for the wolf, sheeeeeeeet negro thats all you had to say.
re: #152 by Truck Monkey
Good memory, Marcia Wallace was Newhearts secretary. Marcellus Wallce? That’s a whole other thing, he wont take shorthand.
re: #169 by livefreeor die
How old is he?
re: #168 by davehm
Hilarious.
re: #172 by RIX
check out my hockey coach at #168
re: #180 by Nevergiveup
He’s 14 now.
re: #181 by calcajun
Say what again I dare you I double dare you!
re: #170 by Nikis Knight
Well I can also since my wife had to take fertility pills, so we kinda know.
re: #177 by ghost707
How the hell did the communists get control of this country?
WOLVERINES!
re: #177 by ghost707
By promising free stuff. Freedom is costly, and not just in the military sense.
re: #144 by RIX
You’re lucky – this is where I’m at:
Now there's only two things in lifeBut I forget what they are
John Hiatt : Buffalo River Home / lyrics
re: #122 by CloudyDay
actually, back in the day during the Roman Empire when they invaded Jerusalem and took control, it was illegal for pagans to convert to Judaism… so teaching the gospel was a way to allow non-Jews to have Judaism by proxy. And certainly in those days it must have seemed like the end times.
re: #169 by livefreeor die
Nice, my wife makes a point of giving him a hug when he walks in the door after school with his friends. when he gets too big for his britches. If he recoils, she has a snide little remark like, “Oh, I forgot, not in front of your friends.”
re: #122 by CloudyDay
So the idea that Christianity is a “Gentile religion” is not accurate, and I suppose that is how you view Christianity.
The ultimate crux between Judaism and Christianity revolves around the person of Jesus Christ – A Christian believes He is the Messiah, a Jewish person doesn’t.
What’s irnoic is that, technically, the Judaism of the Hebrew Scriptures was not a “Jewish” religion – Israel was actually given the responsibility to bring the truth of the One God to the nations, as Jonah did in Ninevah. There are a number of Gentile “converts” to the religion of Israel – Naaman, Rahab, Ruth, Uriah the Hittite, etc., and one can make a good case that the several thousand Philistines and Carians (maybe?) who comprised the Pelethites and Cherethites were also converts to Israel’s God.
And of course, Isaiah and the other prophets have much to say about the Messiah’s promise to all the nations, not just Israel. And Exodus makes specific provision for “strangers” to operate under the same set of Laws as the Jews, which is primarily concerning worship of God. Solomon in II Chronicles said that Gentiles have the same access to worship God in the Temple as Israel did. Clearly, Israel was intended to be missionary.
Scriptural Judaism did not have the exclusivity that we see in so much of Judaism today. In a sense, the “mission to all the world” had by Christianity is merely a seamless continuity from Israel’s mandate – one still centring about the person of the Messiah and the promises made in the Hebrew scriptures to all the world through Him.
re: #154 by goddessoftheclassroom
Seriously, don’t you think Chuck’s mental health should go on the list?
re: #141 by Nikis Knight
Sorry, I don’t find that at all comforting. Evangelical support of Israel is a double-edged sword. We need the support of people that are well grounded in reality. And who support a broader range of options for Israel than their little Armageddon scenario in which the Jews, in any case, are mostly cast into hell.
re: #183 by livefreeor die
Tough age. And I have 2 girls, but they are 22 and 19 now, but I can still embarras them.
re: #190 by Sparky
Heh! His friends are all fascinated by the baby. He’s more interesting than video games!
re: #192 by snork
He’d have to ask to be put on the list, Snork. However, I will put little pins bearing the requester’s name in a ponytailed wax doll for anyone that requests it.
re: #185 by Nevergiveup
Good reason, I suppose. We can narrow it down to the country, or at least bringing a little something back from our vaccation makes for a good story.
I very rarely watch Glen Beck – but I caught his show the other night.
Mocking Anita Dunn with his new direct-to-the-White House red phone was pure genius.
Pure mocking of the White House was exactly the response needed.
Bravo to Beck.
re: #198 by ghost707
Yes, I saw that episode. Having the guy sitting slumped by the phone the whole hour, in case it needed to be answered, was great.
re: #177 by ghost707
supply and demand, its what the public wants.
sad but true.
and its going to be a lot more absurd in the years to come.
re: #193 by Moe Katz
Charles, is that you?
Assuming not, I simply have to re-iterate my judgement of your mind reading ability–it sucks.
re: #193 by Moe Katz
What do you care if they think there is going to be Armageddon based on their Bible?
You might want to think about what you are advocating against.
re: #182 by davehm
That is a gret video.
Samuel L Jackson is the finest user of MFer in human history.
His creativity is remarkable, he is a true artiste.
There should be an MFer Hall of FGame , just so that he could be enshrined in his own wing.
He is one top of the line MFer.
re: #193 by Moe Katz
That’s bunk right there. Evangelicals support Israel because the scriptures say that israel belongs to Jews. As Bible believers they follow the word of God.
That is why Evangelicals support Israel, not the Armageddon Propaganda Progressives put up.
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder concerning Christians.
re: #204 by Rodan
I have lots of reasons to support Israel, and I’ve listed them here before.
re: #166 by teacake
Yes, Jesus was Jewish. One of the problems with contemporary scholarship is that they try to strip Him of His Judaism, so that they can recast Jesus as a Gentile sage or mystic.
Jesus taught that people needed a Savior, and that He was humanity’s only Savior and way to God, and He taught that all people needed Him.
re: #198 by ghost707
I too did not enjoy watching Beck when the show first started, but he has really grown into it, or I am just getting it. Todays show with 50 doctors discussing Medicine from all sides is brilliant.
re: #202 by WrathofG-d
Because they will join with Jewish zealots—who are equally devoid of a functioning reality principle—to exacerbate the Arab-Israeli conflict so as to bring it to a head and fulfill their stupid eschatological fantasies. Much like the Shiites in Tehran.
re: #208 by Moe Katz
There’s no comparison About Religious Jews/Christians and Islam. Get real, seriously.
re: #206 by CloudyDay
Well, did he teach that or did his disciples imbue him with those qualities after his death ( and his rise, depending on your point of view)?
re: #192 by snork
Some Kos poster sent CJ a link where he referred to him as ‘Bat shit crazy & Howard Hughes save & drink your own urine crazy.”
Charlie actually had the temerity to say”Some people seem to have no awareness at all of their own shitty behavior.”
Oh sob.
re: #192 by snork
Some Kos poster sent CJ a link where he referred to him as ‘Bat shit crazy & Howard Hughes save & drink your own urine crazy.”
Charlie actually had the temerity to say”Some people seem to have no awareness at all of their own shitty behavior.”
Oh sob.
re: #208 by Moe Katz
Well, I fear that this conversation is going to end up where most of ours do (unfortunately), but I find it horribly ironic that you call others “zealots”, and claim others are “devoid of a functioning reality principle” while maintaining such a stunted and hardline position.
But in response to the claim, I think you are off base. The Christians I have met are exceptionally kind, gentle, and only want what is best for Israel.
Yes, I have heard the old fears (previously well founded, now not so much) pontificate in theory about “Armageddon”, and a final war, but I have yet to find any reality to it.
In short, your unanimous seems to stem from a presently unfounded fear.
give it a fucking rest about jews vs christians,
its making me feel sick.
re: #213 by WrathofG-d
That last line is not supposed to read Unanimous.
but instead “Animus.”
Well the Dodgers just tied the score after the Phillies took Pedro out after 7 and their shitty bullpen couldn’t hold the lead.
re: #209 by Rodan
All of them in the Middle East—Jews, Christians, Shiites, Sunnis—have these millenialist tendencies. I see it as the greatest danger in the region.
My feelings with regard to Christianity is that it is closely tied to Judaism. Jesus was Jewish and the Last Supper was a Passover meal. I guess my personal views of God and Christ have trouble reconciling the idea that those two beings who emphasized love for one another and forgiveness, would deny someone who was a good person, no matter what their religion on Earth, entrance into Heaven. That’s my personal interpretation-it may not jibe with other peoples’ views.
“4) I support Israel not so that Jews will convert or so the END TIMES will come and I can fly away, but because they are a more just nation and have prior claim on the land and the people who want to kill them want to kill me.”
From this thread on this site, http://www.littlegreenfootballs2.com/2009/09/23/9-year-old-undergoes-gender-transition/
# 63 (my old nic)
In response to the same slander by an obscure blogger.
Perhaps you can find some quotes somewhere on teh internet by someone claiming to be Christian to the opposite effect. Presuming they are not being misinterpreted, I’ll condemn them, but I’ve never encountered anyone with such beliefs, or who voiced them anyway, in real life.
re: #213 by WrathofG-d
well then, does this mean i can come out of the basement now?
re: #191 by tqcincinnatus
You hit that nail pretty good.
See ya.
See ya.
I had an interesting and pleasant discussion with a Jewish Talmudic scholar recently.
He was sharing how he had a family member (Jewish) back in the country where I came from who was part of the leadership because he was member of the Communist Party.
I told him I would NOT have supported him but would have fought him.
He understood what I was saying. He did notice that there were two major kinds of Jews: The Torah observing Jews and the ones that followed the other things including communism. He did distinctly note the difference that the religious Jews would NOT be a Communist (well the atheism aspect would be a problem for one thing).
The key thing is, what makes a Jew a Jew? Is it a race? An ethnic background? Religion? A cultural attachment? We can see that many Jews do not observe the religious aspect and if they do so, it is not even parallel to the Torah and the Tanakh.
Similar thing can be said of Christians. What makes one a Christian? Being born in a church? Being raised one? Or one who decided in his or heart to follow a Jewish Rabbi named Yeshua Ben David?
So the issue of conversion, what does it mean to convert?
Conversion is actually a Jewish concept and originally meant to turn away from life of disobedience to Torah to a life of obedience.
Remember that gentiles believed in multiple gods before Jewish apostles spread this Jewish G-d and the Good News that this Jewish G-d sent a Saviour to save them from sins. So Christianity is based on Judaism!
re: #211 by RIX
“Some people seem to have no awareness at all of their own shitty behavior.”
Did he say that before, during or after one of his lie-riddled tirades against everyone from ex-posters to Rush Limbaugh?
The man is definitely “save & drink” insane.
re: #219 by Nikis Knight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSMaOe4QoEY
re: #206 by CloudyDay
Cloudy Day, I have a feeling you don’t know much about Judaism. We follow the word of G-d which is the torah. Jesus was helping non-Jews have an understanding of the torah and since they were used to worshiping idols I guess they decided to go though Jesus instead of torah. It was a lot easier that way for non-Jews. If G-d wanted us to have Jeusus, he wouldn’t have bothered with Torah.
re: #217 by Moe Katz
Well here is what Jesus said about the End of days.
Therefore as a Christian I can’t cause the end of the World. I believe Religious Jews also have the same mindset that Only God can determine the End of Days.
re: #203 by RIX
He should of won an Oscar.
re: #220 by coldwarrior
Not while Obama is in the White House. Well I’m building me a bomb shelter.
I just heard Mark Levin play a clip from Anita Dunn. I didn’t notice when I watched the video because she was such a psychotic looking person with that crazy sticking her tongue out, but I was shocked at how much her speech patterns and voice intonations sounded a lot like Michelle Obama.
I wonder just how long these commies have been hanging around with each other.
Since it is an open thread… Are there any Linux (Ubuntu) users among you guys? If so, I need some pointers as to how to get the media players to play audio and video geared toward windows.
re: #224 by Incognito
Exactly, Christianity comes from Judaism. As a Roman Catholic, I respect and admire the Jewish faith. They are my spiritual brothers and that’s that.
re: #214 by justin case
I agree we need to stick together.
re: #214 by justin case
LOL relax…you can’t talk about things like this on other unnamed blogs, besides this is an open God thread.
re: #218 by livefreeor die
Amen and I agree with you!
re: #224 by Incognito
It’s funny that Christians who want to convert jews are said to want to destroy Judaism, but athiests & communists who want to convert Jews are not.
re: #228 by Rodan
My understanding re: Jews is that we believe only G-d knows when it will happen, but we can effect it.
Through good or bad behavior (its a bit more technical than that, but you get the point).
Personally, I don’t understand this fear some have of religious Christians. I surely DO NOT share it.
(if anyone is interested in another Jews opinion)
re: #232 by PrincessNatasha
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-ubuntu.html
re: #232 by PrincessNatasha
I’m not familiar with Unix. Maybe Google it and see what comes up?
re: #232 by PrincessNatasha
I got most of my stuff to work, if you go to applications and click on add/remove you can download a whole bunch of different players.
re: #230 by Nevergiveup
i was waiting for the postings to degenerate or get far enough off topic that i could come up from the previous thread and not be the first to be un-godly, foul mouthed, et cetera.
re: #226 by Moe Katz
I’m not going to click videos right now (at work) and unlikely to bother later (too busy at home). If you want me to respond, give a summary or paraphrase.
Off to make dinner.
See you later!
re: #243 by Nikis Knight
Its people singing “I’ll fly away”.
re: #227 by teacake
I think it is great that the internet provides us a way to interact on an international level so easily. By biting my tongue and just listening for awhile, I have learned many things here. Religion is as volatile as the politics, with faith we can hear and not be personally offended.
re: #231 by chickadee
They both dip snuff sold by chuckles from amazon
Wonderful guitar work on Gillian Welch and David Rawlings’ live version of I’ll Fly Away (my #226). Those two are God’s great gift to old-time country music in our era.
re: #238 by WrathofG-d
True biblical Christianity is extremely powerful and a lot of folks have a rough time with it.
But hey, look on the bright side we’re not flying air planes into buildings.
re: #238 by WrathofG-d
That’s how we see it also. It’s up to God to decide.
As you see I have no problem with Jews being outspoken about their faith. After it it was Jews who started my faith.
re: #242 by coldwarrior
I usually would fit that bill and run cover for ya.
Davehm, justin case, thank you guys!! I am trying out all the applications on my machine, because my Dad now has Ubuntu, after a particularly horrible virus destroyed his Windows XP beyond recovery. I couldn’t even re-format the hard drive. So, I got him Ubuntu, he can use it for internet and whatnot, but he likes to watch Russian TV online and listen to Russian radio, and they are heavily biased toward Windows. So, the plugins should help.
re: #193 by Moe Katz
I’m “well grounded” in reality. I am not insane.
Moe Katz wrote, And who support a broader range of options for Israel than their little Armageddon scenario in which the Jews, in any case, are mostly cast into hell. If I understand you correctly, you’re bent out of shape that although someone such as myself supports the nation Israel, and has no hatred for Jewish people, that any support I have should be shunned because I believe that all people need a Savior, and that the only Savior is Jesus?
What do you suppose my “options” for Israel are?
My options for Israel would include the USA standing in support of Israel, which would include military, financial, and public support (e.g., our President plainly saying to the media for all the world to hear that the USA stands behind Israel), and for the USA to stop telling the Israeli government to give up its land to the Palestinians.
204 Rodan (to Moe Katz):
That has been the same impression I’ve gotten from his posts from the past couple of days, too. It’s kind of sad to me; I’m not his enemy.
CloudyDay, Israel made a promise to G-d to keep His covenant. Do you really think its cool to ask Jews to break a contract they made with G-d? There is nothing higher than that to a Jew. Sorry. As much as you desire to have us turn our back on Him and our ways, is how much we wish you could understand why you are asking us to do something really not too nice.
re: #243 by Nikis Knight
Some glad morning when this life is o’er,
I’ll fly away;
To a home on God’s celestial shore,
I’ll fly away (I’ll fly away).
Chorus
I’ll fly away, Oh Glory
I’ll fly away; (in the morning)
When I die, Hallelujah, by and by,
I’ll fly away (I’ll fly away).
When the shadows of this life have gone,
I’ll fly away;
Like a bird from prison bars has flown,
I’ll fly away (I’ll fly away)
Chorus
I’ll fly away, Oh Glory
I’ll fly away; (in the morning)
When I die, Hallelujah, by and by,
I’ll fly away (I’ll fly away).
Just a few more weary days and then,
I’ll fly away;
To a land where joy shall never end,
I’ll fly away (I’ll fly away)
Chorus
I’ll fly away, Oh Glory
I’ll fly away; (in the morning)
When I die, Hallelujah, by and by,
I’ll fly away (I’ll fly away).
re: #250 by Rodan
This might come off a bit non-P.C., but I imagine that most religious Christians share the feeling.
I am personally not fearful of Christian “end of days” concepts, or their believe in Jesus, because well…..I know they are wrong!
So, if they are good people, treat me well, treat others well, etc….what do I care what they teach their children about Jesus, or “end times”.
I think it is only those who are not as strong and confident in their faith that feel threatened.
I am so confident in my beliefs, they don’t require anyone else to agree.
re: #245 by WrathofG-d
Christians very much want Jesus to come back. Why? Because we long for the day to meet our Lord face to face. But while there are some mostly vague prophecies about when that will be, I think the by far most common view is that these are descriptive not proscriptive–that is, they describe what will happen, not things that we are to do to make that happen.
Further, some of these things seem like they are bad things in general, or to specific groups. Christians who long to meet Jesus should be careful not to sound like they want some cataclism to befall others; at the same time Christians calling for the return of Jesus should not be taken as longing for anyone else in particular to meet judgement!!
Again, Christians that take after their lord do not look forward to the damnation of others–indeed, I’m sure should judgement day comes I’ll have my share or greater of shame–but do look forward to meeting the one who gave himself for us. It is a bittersweet longing.
If that is offensive to someone, I’m sorry I guess, but I really can’t be bothered to smooth their feathers further.
re: #232 by PrincessNatasha
Not an easy row to hoe. I never diddled with Ubuntu, but from what I’ve seen, SuSE is probably better suited for that. And even it’s like pulling teeth to get windows media to work, because you have to work around Microsoft’s licensing restrictions.
re: #253 by CloudyDay
Moe is just one person.
He surely does not speak for all Jews.
(and no one I know)
most of yinz know where i stand on this stuff, so i’ll just lurk.
* *
/
\—/
re: #245 by WrathofG-d
Styx, Sail away!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BARLfUmyBJA
re: #193 by Moe Katz
“”"Sorry, I don’t find that at all comforting. Evangelical support of Israel is a double-edged sword. We need the support of people that are well grounded in reality. And who support a broader range of options for Israel than their little Armageddon scenario in which the Jews, in any case, are mostly cast into hell”"”
Don’t worry Moe there are plenty of good Catholics that will support Israel at all costs!
So what is all this then?
This may have been said already, but I will say it for my part.
What many seen to forget is Yeshua observed Judaism and ever since Christianity move west it has lost the beauty of it’s beginnings, that is, the Hebraic tradition and observance of the law that made it so different from the pagan worship that permeated the rest of the world. The separation of Christianity from its Jewish roots did not happen all at once. It took many generations. I for one would love to see a return to the observance of the high days and feasts and closer association with it founding.
One prime example of the digression is we Christian don’t observe the sabbath. Most of christendom attends worship on the first day of the week and not on the real day of rest.
I could go on and on, but that is enough.
re: #256 by WrathofG-d
Well said. I feel the same.
re: #257 by Nikis Knight
See my 259.
Moe is welcome to have his/her opinion, but please do not believe that (s)he speaks for “The Jews”.
re: #256 by WrathofG-d
I agree, we respect each other and that’s that. You are secure in your Jewish faith, what do you care what we believe!
re: #265 by WrathofG-d
I speak for one major tendency in Judaism and you speak for another.
re: #256 by WrathofG-d
I for one prefer those who have the intellectual honesty to state that beliefs contradictory to what they believe to be right are wrong, and that beliefs that they don’t hold are not as good as what they do.
If you don’t think you are right, why do you hold fast to your ideas? Better an honest appraisal of what you find true and not true than pleasant lies that all contradictions are irrelevant and everyone is entitled to their own truths.
Of course, that doesn’t mean I’ll always agree with you, but it’s stupid to hold the view that you can’t ever find anyone else to be wrong, and all the moreso to be offended by it.
Oh, and Wrath thanks once again for a thread about spirituality. It seems like it’s only and bar that do this. Thanks to both of you.
re: #256 by WrathofG-d
stirred up the old shit pot tonight eh wrath.
good thread mate all we need is mel gibson to round it off,
fuck it.
re: #262 by BBEV
“Don’t worry Moe there are plenty of good Catholics that will support Israel at all costs!”
What I like about your Catholic support is that Israel doesn’t get pushed to start WWIII. It IS more rational.
re: #267 by Moe Katz
And in like manner my flavor of Christianity doesn’t sit well with others in the same community.
re: #267 by Moe Katz
I don’t know what you think you know about me, but I’ll will remind you again that many of my friends are Reform.
re: #270 by justin case
I didn’t read the whole thread but from what I’ve read it doesn’t seem like anything was stirred up other than civil debate.
Are you the second stirrer or are there others?
re: #268 by Nikis Knight
The key to my statement is that I disagree but don’t need to get bent out of shape about it. I don’t have to agree with you to allow you your opinion. Furthermore, just because I don’t agree, it doesn’t mean I need to fear your opinion, and attempt to degrade you because of it, or get you to change it.
Let each man hold to his faith however he sees fit. After all, no one will answer to God for them. TO each his own.
re: #214 by justin case
“give it a fucking rest about jews vs christians,
its making me feel sick.”
That’s the alcohol man.
re: #270 by justin case
Overall we agree that Judeo/Christian values are intertwined. We are just arguing the fine points, because we can.
re: #252 by PrincessNatasha
I run windows xp and Ubuntu in a duel boot mode, I have some software that won’t run on linux may you should try putting ubuntu over windows and use ubuntu for netserfing
re: #265 by WrathofG-d
I attribute everyones comments to them alone and make no wider generalizations from them.
re: #262 by BBEV
This seems to imply that you buy his assertion that my support of Israel is a facade or some selfish ploy or dark scheme.
You can believe what you like, but it is simply not so.
re: #271 by Moe Katz
Amen
re: #273 by WrathofG-d
Some of your best friends are Reform Jews?
The only religion I have had contact with that scares the stuff out of me is Islam.
re: #272 by song_and_dance_man
My own Personal Jesus
I’m with coldwarrior, on this one. I will not argue religion. My extended family is quite large, and while most of my immediate relatives are Russian Orthodox, there is a whole lot of distant uncles, aunts and cousins who are Jewish. There are beautiful things about both faiths, and the most important part, God, is the same. Like a 77-year-old Rabbi-chaplain, back during my Basic Training days, said, “You know what the most important difference is, between Christians and Jews? It’s the FOOD!!” My friend in Basic was Jewish, but the rules were, nobody could go anywhere alone, so I accompanied her to the services on the weekends. It was great, I learned a lot, and besides, after the services we were really spoiled: we could sleep in huge comfy chairs in the designated lounge, eat cookies, drink sodas, read newspapers, write letters home and have them mailed for us. Plus, and it’s a HUGE plus: there were NO Drill Sergeants! Truly, we felt like the Chosen People.
re: #271 by Moe Katz
Your Guest post is up.
re: #283 by Sparky
Sparky, I have the Johnny Cash “God” CD with that on it, it’s a good’un.
re: #278 by davehm
Yeah, I have the dual-boot with Windows as well. But I am mostly doing this for my Dad, because his machine crashed, and I could not recover the Windows. So, he now has Ubuntu, and is happy, but I want to make sure he can watch his Russian TV he loves so much.
re: #281 by Moe Katz
I don’t understand. Do you doubt my statement?
re: #276 by Grimcargo
I agree with that. The whole law can be summed up in Love the Lord your God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. Whoever abies in and fulfills these two terms (not commandments) serves the interests of the Creator.
Of note: Abraham, to my knowledge, did not hear the name Yeshau and was called the friend of God. But he did see that he was a pilgrim in this world and looked for another place that was not of this world. He looked for something that had not yet been revealed, as far as the record goes.
re: #284 by PrincessNatasha
I dated many Russian Orthodox although ironically the Ukranian I was with 5 years when I lived in NY was Ukranian Greek Rite Catholic.
To me Evangelicals, Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Baptists, Copts and Jews are all on the same team.
We play different positions on God’s team.
That’s how I view it.
re: #271 by Moe Katz
It’s funny. You want to talk about offensive beliefs. I believe that jews will be judged in the same maner as everyone else on earth in the end, and that they are an exceptionally moral and devout people. You find this offensive.
You believe that my (repeatedly stated and explained) support for your nation is some lie or ploy in order to start a war and bring millions of deaths. This is somehow not offensive?
I think that says more about eagerness to take offense than it does the actual ideas in question; namely that you are eager to do so, while I am content to shake my head sadly merely refute you vilification.
Anyhow, I am off, have a good night all and a good Sabbath for those that will soon observe it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18tZLwcVO2Q
re: #290 by Rodan
You said it quite well, “Playing different positions on God’s team”. It sums up what I believe perfectly. Some people of faith will be surprised whom they see once they pass through the proverbial Pearly Gates… Like that joke goes about a guy who died and is having St. Peter taking him around Heaven showing him the place… As they walk by, there is a big group of people in the distance. St. Peter says:” Hush… Those are… (insert denomination), they think they’re the only ones here!”
re: #291 by Nikis Knight
What I posted for you was a great live version of I’ll Fly Away by Gillian Welch. If you don’t dig old time country gospel music it’s your loss
Peace.
re: #227 by teacake
Please understand that what I’m about to write, that I am not saying in a rude or condescending way.
You seem to misunderstand what Jesus claimed for Himself, His reasons for coming into the world, and so on.
Jesus said He came to fulfill the law, not abolish it (please see Matthew 5.17).
Jesus mentioned that He came first and only to the Jews (e.g., to a Gentile woman, Matt 15.24, Mathew 10:5-6), but He later included Gentiles in the mission.
Jesus didn’t say anything about coming to clarify Jewish laws and teachings to or for Gentiles, or to urge them away from idol worship.
The Old Testament points to a coming Messiah, it contains prophecies of the One God was going to send.
Jesus proclaimed to be God, to be the fulfillment of prophecies found in the Old Testament, etc., something even which the Jewish people and Jewish religious leaders of His day recognized (e.g., please see John 10.31-33).
208 Moe Katz
Moe, Christians cannot do anything to “speed up” Armageddon and/or the return of Jesus Christ.
I am aware that a small number of Christian ministries think that by paying for airfare for Jews in Africa and the former USSR to return to Israel they may somehow be “helping God” with end time prophecy stuff, but that view is not mainstream.
~And I don’t even think they themselves necessarily think that by doing so they are ushering in the return of Jesus.
Jesus was asked by His disciples (who were Jewish guys) when they could expect his second return, the end of the age, etc.
Jesus then gave a list of things they could expect to see as the present world system was coming to a close.
Followers of Jesus were told by Jesus to look for the signs of and expect the second coming of Jesus and the end of the world system, not that they could bring it about by their own actions (please see Matthew 24).
And, as a few others have quoted above, Jesus said “no man knows the day or hour” or His return, only God the Father. That also implies that it’s up to God as to the timing.
Hey, Moe. I’m a member of Pastafarians United Touting Zionism.
PUTZ for short.
We noodlators got you Jews’ backs.
re: #290 by Rodan
bit of a ladies man eh.
re: #288 by WrathofG-d
No. It’s just a bit funny how you come so close to the old saying that “some of my best friends are Jews.” I realize your intentions are completely different. Just pointing out the humor.
re: #279 by Nikis Knight
Certain sects of Christians are trying to rid the world of Jews and Judaism by convincing them to convert. Very unsettling and offensive.
Catholics don’t indulge in the practice of trying to have people convert, or at least I’ve never heard of any Catholic doing that.
re: #296 by snork
I’ve seen the noodle and the damage done.
re: #295 by CloudyDay
P.S. to 208 Moe Katz-
Christians believe in Psalm 122:6, where we are told to “pray for the peace of Jerusalem,” not hope for an increase in Middle East tension, and not to try to increase the tension and violence.
re: #295 by CloudyDay
If it makes you feel any better; notice that “Moe Katz” includes “Jewish zealots” in there as well.
Seems there are no religions that are ok, just “reformed” ones like him. He maintains the same dislike, and mistrust for his fellow Jews.
re: #295 by CloudyDay
He is for YOU and your salvation. Also you need to know that what is in the non-Jewish version of the Old Testament is worded VERY very differently than what is in the original Jewish version. Maybe you might do yourself a favor and ask a rabbi to sit with you and explain why it is just not acceptable or necessary for you to rid the world of Jews.
re: #299 by teacake
There are Jews who believe in Jesus. Jesus Himself was a Jew, and as I’ve said repeatedly, His first followers were mostly Jews; they didn’t cease being Jews or being Jewish.
re: #300 by Moe Katz
That was the meatballs. The meatballs are like the Holy Ghost. Don’t get no respect.
re: #300 by Moe Katz
OK, that was really funny.
Ha
re: #301 by CloudyDay
Then you and I are on the same page there. We don’t need millenialist Christians egging on millenialist Jews, thereby hastening a cataclysmic conflict with millenialist Muslims. It’s mass psychosis.
re: #306 by song_and_dance_man
Apologies to Neil, eh?
re: #307 by Moe Katz
Millenialist Jews?
What in the world (this or the next) are you talking about?
re: #309 by WrathofG-d
Wrath, can I ask you a question? Did you have anything to do with a little video from the “group of eighteen” or something like that which Charles showed about a year ago? They talk about 3rd temple and stuff.
re: #310 by Moe Katz
No. I have no affiliations with the Group of 18, (or whatever it is actually called) that you speak of.
Why?
re: #304 by CloudyDay
TO us he was not G-d, or son of G-d, or a holy spirit. He was just another Jewish guy teaching torah to people outside of Judiasm. You really need to have a talk with a rabbi.
None of your quotes mean anything to Jews other than annoyances. To us, he was flesh and blood man with a lot of balls.
re: #311 by WrathofG-d
I just wondered. Charles was so standoffish, taciturn and detached in the way he introduced it that I figure he was just paid to run the video. He was asked on the thread who was the source of it and who the 18 were but he remained silent.
re: #313 by Moe Katz
I never really felt Charles Johnson was very fond of WrathofG-d.
re: #303 by teacake
I have to disagree with you on a not so fine point. As CD quoted you, you said,
That is just not true. Yeshua’s ministry was within in Israel during his whole ministry and he always visited the synagogues whenever he rolled into another town. The exception is when he visited Samaria and maybe other times that escape my memory. I can only recall a few select times when he spoke to the Gentiles in his 3 years. And if you read his words in our accepted version of scripture, they are repeat with references to the Torah, the Psalms and the Prophets. And he always observed the days that were most important to his heritage.
And one other point. You are correct about the translation of the Hebrew texts of the Torah in the commonly accepted Septuagint. A better rendering for me would be the Onkelos version. But of course that also is fraught with contention given his own personal history.
re: #303 by teacake
Everyone needs Jesus as Lord and Savior.
I’d say the same to an atheist, a Hindu, a Muslim, someone who worships the tree in his front yard, or whatever their religious background.
Saying only “I” need Him for salvation doesn’t make any sense.
All of mankind is separated from God due to sin, and the New Testament says (and the Old Testament points to) that only God could repair this damaged relationship… and His answer can summed up in John 3.16.
Tea cake said,
As I said above (please see post 304), believing in Jesus and being Jewish are not mutually exclusive. It pains me to see that there are some Jewish people who continue to want to view it as being mutually exclusive.
Also as touched upon, Gentile believers in Jesus are said to be grafted into the nation of Israel (please see Romans Ch. 11).
If anything, according to such passages, Gentiles who believe in Jesus are sort of Jews by adoption, from God’s perspective. Rather than “losing” Jews to Jesus, Judaism is gaining a lot of converts.
It’s also mentioned in the New Testament that God honored the faith of Abraham.
That is, God made a promise to Abraham, Abraham believed God, and God ‘credited’ that to him as righteousness. (Romans 4)
It wasn’t the guy’s ethnic background, observation of external laws and rules, etc., but his faith in God and God’s promise that qualified Him in God’s sight.
This is how God could open His salvation plan up to all people. (Please see Galatians 3, esp. starting at verse 6*)
Tea cake said,
Well, most of the writers of the New Testament were Jews.
The Apostle Paul (who was a Jew, his name was formerly “Saul”) used to murder followers of Jesus, he later became a follower of Jesus Himself, and he was a very educated man.
Paul knew the Old Testament very well. I think I can trust Paul’s understanding of the OT and he expounded upon its meanings and content in the New Testament
I do sometimes enjoy listening to rabbis today illuminate parts of the Bible.
re: #299 by teacake
Teacake, in past history, Catholics used to convert others, even by force if necessary…South American history is full of that.
Even during Reformation era of Europe.
re: #314 by WrathofG-d
Well I know he didn’t like me
I never felt his support of Israel completely rang true. He didn’t really seem to know much about Jews or Israel. Like everything else, his support for us was a marketing strategy.
Ok, I must go keep the Shabbat, and allow it to keep me.
Play nice.
re: #319 by WrathofG-d
Shabbat Shalom, Wrath.
316 – possible correction to my comment,
“The Apostle Paul (who was a Jew, his name was formerly “Saul”) used to murder followers of Jesus,”
I’d have to double-check that information; I don’t know if Paul actually was responsible for any murders himself, but he did participate, by standing by, approving of such murders, and I think he issued orders for the arrests of followers of Jesus.
re: #208 by Moe Katz
Because they will join with Jewish zealots—who are equally devoid of a functioning reality principle—to exacerbate the Arab-Israeli conflict so as to bring it to a head and fulfill their stupid eschatological fantasies. Much like the Shiites in Tehran.
Spoken like someone who’s never read the Book of Revelation!
I would like to add my two cents regarding the End of Days.
As a Christian with a relatively strong Jewish education, my understanding of the End of Days is the end of the times of Gentiles. IF you look at the Gospels carefully with what Jesus said, He was quite specific about the end of the times of Gentiles.
In the Book of Revelation, John describes the return of the Messiah as a King to sit on the throne of David, which parallels Daniel’s account in the Tanakh.
Note in the Gospels the disciples (Jewish) asks Jesus when is the Kingdom coming back to Israel? (meaning the independence of Israel from foreign domination). Note that Jesus does not deny their understanding!
SO the millenial reign that Revelations talk about is like, Israel reigning again independent from foreign powers, with the King of Kings on David’s throne!
re: #221 by davehm
You hit that nail pretty good.
Thanks. My boss is a Jewish carpenter, after all…. (groan, it HAD to be said)
The Krazy Kos Kiddies are saying “meh”:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/16/793932/-Bring-it-on,-indeed!-Blog-Wars-erupt-on-the-right
So Chuckles says “FU” back:
Dontcha love your new neighbors, Chuckles?
Just a gentile reminder:
Overall you’re doing pretty good:-)
And Moe, know that it wasn’t Christians who tipped over the hourglass to the count down to Armageddon, not can they effect the speed of sand. Yazid Ibn Salam from Jerusalem and Raja Ibn Haywah from Baysan are responsible for that.
re: #257 by Nikis Knight
Christians who long to meet Jesus should be careful not to sound like they want some cataclism to befall others; at the same time Christians calling for the return of Jesus should not be taken as longing for anyone else in particular to meet judgement!!
Another irony alert – the prophecy that Moe is so uptight about regarding the Jews and the end of days is actually found in the book of Zechariah. It’s a prophecy that comes straight out of the Hebrew scriptures – Christians didn’t invent it.
Somebody’s trying to be the new Von Quacksalot:
Oy.
re: #270 by justin case
stirred up the old shit pot tonight eh wrath.
good thread mate all we need is mel gibson to round it off,
Hey, don’t knock it, there’s nothing like a good reigious debate to drive the comments numbers sky high!
As an aside, does anyone else have the problem where this thing will eat your comments? What can be done about this?
Oh, F me. The crackpots have cracked open their pot:
The first guy’s pulling legs, but the Hoosier dope really believes this shiite. What is it with these knuckleheads, every crackpot theory to come along is to be considered, but when it comes to AGW, “the science is settled”.
Maybe it makes a little more sense after a couple bottles and a couple hits.
re: #299 by teacake
Certain sects of Christians are trying to rid the world of Jews and Judaism by convincing them to convert. Very unsettling and offensive.
That’s a rather ridiculous, paranoid, and irrational way of looking at it.
re: #309 by WrathofG-d
Millenialist Jews?
What in the world (this or the next) are you talking about?
I’m still trying to figure out what he’s talking about to begin with.
“Millenialist Christians” are egging on “Millenialist Jews” to have an apocalyptic free for all with “Millenialist Muslims”
What LDS trip did he get that interpretation from?
re: #312 by teacake
Long before this exchange, I already was aware of that. I already realized that Jewish people do not regard Jesus as being God or the Messiah.
Christians do not believe that Jesus is or was the Holy Spirit. (I guess your comment there could be contributed to a misunderstanding of the Trinity, or how followers of Jesus view the Trinity.)
Teacake said,
That is inaccurate, as explained above by myself and “song and dance man.”
Jesus did not claim to come to “teach torah to gentiles,” he gave other reasons as to why He came into the world.
Jesus came to the people of Israel first and foremost, and He told His disciples at first to limit their contact and His message only to Jewish people. (I gave you the citations in posts above.)
Teacake said,
Jesus claimed to be God and the Messiah; even his detractors recognized that He was making these claims for Himself (and again, since I provided you with the citations and links to those passages, I won’t repeat them here).
If you don’t want to believe in Jesus, that would make me sad, but I accept your decision, and it is your decision to make.
I don’t understand (what appears to be) the hostility bubbling up in your posts to me. We can discuss these issues without being mean, nasty, or rude to one another. I certainly don’t hate you or have anything against you.
re: #295 by CloudyDay
nailed it!
For the last two days it’s been snowing in State College Pa. Some places got 5 inches. It is snowing nicely right now outside my office window. Pretty.
re: #317 by Incognito
Teacake, in past history, Catholics used to convert others, even by force if necessary…South American history is full of that.
Even during Reformation era of Europe.
Here I go, stirring the pot again, but they did the same thing to my baptistic forefathers all throughout the Middle Ages. Let’s just say that the Jews aren’t the only one who faced crusades, pogroms, and inquisitions in European history.
re: #336 by tqcincinnatus
From Waldo onward
re: #335 by waldensianspirit
My in-laws live up near State College….which town are you in?
I’m on Penn State Campus right now. I can walk to work as it is .6 miles.
re: #337 by waldensianspirit
From Waldo onward
Even before Waldo! Paulicians, Albigenses, etc. etc.
It’s interesting to get into the scant primary sources we have about these groups. Very informative, because what they had to say for themselves overturns all the “they wuz gnostics and maneeechayuns!” stuff that the Catholics have written into the “official” historical record.
There were Bible-believing Christians existing completely outside the Roman communion all through post-Roman history in Europe. They weren’t “reformed”, since they didn’t come out of Catholicism – since they were never IN it in the first place!
re: #339 by waldensianspirit
The in-laws live near Howard.
re: #340 by tqcincinnatus
Yep that is true. The enlightenment came through these groups. Not Darwin and his bulldog.
re: #342 by waldensianspirit
Yep that is true. The enlightenment came through these groups. Not Darwin and his bulldog.
Ooooo, selrahC would ban you for that!
re: #341 by tqcincinnatus
Some miles out yet in the neighborhood
Hockey time at PSU! Going over soon
re: #343 by tqcincinnatus
Basically yes:-)
My nic was Roger
re: #345 by waldensianspirit
I worked with a Roger. I hope you’re not him. (LOL)
re: #340 by tqcincinnatus
That’s a good point about “reformed” so many folks in the world are under the impression that Christianity had been reformed, they fail to realize that true biblical Christianity hasn’t changed in 2000 years and a majority of the worlds Christians hold the bible has the literal, inerrant, authoritative word of God.
re: #346 by tqcincinnatus
Not all of us are cool:-) Nope we didn’t work together. I’m in the sciences – materials and scientific equipment etc.
re: #317 by Incognito
I didn’t want to bring that up since it doesn’t seem to be a problem in modern days.
re: #333 by CloudyDay
As you say, claimed
re: #350 by teacake
Here’s some info.
http://alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=94&Itemid=0
re: #307 by Moe Katz
I will probably be getting off the blog in awhile, so I may not be able to stay on and engage much longer in this conversation. (Maybe I can return later tonight or tomorrow.)
Also, I am having a hard time following this thread because every time I hit “refresh,” a billion more posts show up.
BTW, I sure do miss the Edit button!
Anyway, Moe wrote,
I’m not sure how you’re defining and understanding some of these terms (such as “millenialist”), but from what I’ve seen of your posts so far, you have a very distorted view of how many Christians view Bible prophecy.
There is nothing Christians can do to usher in Armageddon. The Scriptures state that its timing is up to God.
There will be a lot of violence and bloodshed during the time of the Anti-Christ, armageddon, and all that other prophecy stuff, and I don’t know of any Christian who cherishes the idea of so many people dying and getting injured.
There will be lots of gentiles of all various religious backgrounds, and some atheists, etc., who get killed during that time.
Everyone will suffer and be impacted during the unfolding of all this stuff.
There will be people during that time period who come to accept Jesus, and they will be killed for their faith in Jesus. Nobody will be spared from the violence.
To many Christians, the one-day of return of Jesus is one positive aspect of that otherwise violent time period, and it’s also a vindication of Jesus Himself, and it’s a vindication for the nation of Israel (the Jewish people).
When Jesus returns, one big reason He does so is to save Israel and to defeat Israel’s enemies.
That, to me, is a very pro-Jewish/pro-Israel message.
I’m having browser problems now. I’ve tried submitting this post twice, but it doesn’t want to go through.
350. teacake
Yep, that is the point of contention, was Jesus God or not, was He the Messiah or not?
And if you choose to believe that Jesus is not God and the Messiah, that’s sad, but okay.
I mention that Jesus claimed to be God and the Messiah because some apologists of Non-Christian beliefs (including New Age types, etc.) dispute that and say, “Naw, Jesus never claimed to be uniquely the Son of God!,” etc.
So, teacake, have you ever read the New Testament?
And you do acknowledge now that Jesus did not come merely to “teach Torah to Gentiles”-?
Jesus speaking to His disciples:
“Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.” (from Matthew 10:6)
Matthew 15:24, Jesus speaking to a Gentile woman:
In John 10, when Jesus first talks about His sheep, the sheep are referring to the Jewish people, but He hints that He will include the Gentiles:
re: #350 by teacake
If you study that link I gave you it will help you in understanding what we believe and where Christians are coming from.
re: #348 by waldensianspirit
Sciences here, too. Chemist by trade.
Later all, family calls!
Hoping this post doesn’t get eaten by the postie monster.
re: #353 by CloudyDay
It is more intellectually honest to say that Jesus was simply deluded (and not particularly offensive, though hard to justify) than to say that he was unconcerned with preaching/teaching to the Jews but rather only to Gentiles.
“Oh Jerusalem! How I long to gather you to me!”
It is a polite line some Jews take to make peace, but I’d prefer an honest recognition of differences.
re: #350 by teacake
It’s not so much what is claimed, but more to the point what is true. As I said in my parting comment that lead me here, acceptance or rejection of the truth is all that matters once we have to answer for what we believe. It will all be sorted out in the end. Let’s all HOPE we made the right choice and can stand blameless before the Eternal who is the determining Judge for us accepting or rejecting his revelation that was spoken to us from the men he chose to transfer it.
It is a crap shoot for many, no doubt.
re: #358 by song_and_dance_man
That was a poor choice of words and it was not meant as written as the crap shoot could be taken as offensive. I meant the idiomatic intent.
Allow me to take that back and use another phrase.
It is a roll of the theological dice for many, no doubt.
re: #358 & 358 by song_and_dance_man
Point well made. This is one of the more civil threads I have read from diverse viewpoints.
re: #360 by zaugg
We are trying and I agree. Here is a place where we can discuss things politely with divergent opinions and still get it done with minimal flame.
re: #330 by snork
Trust me, any night that Ludwig shows up is NOT a good night.
I try to stay out of these threads. I have stated in several places under several different nick’s that I am an Agnostic. I believe in G-D but no particular religion fits my psyche.
I thrust this upon no one and will listen patiently to almost anyone. I have problems with only one religion that being Whabbist Islam.
Religious belief is diverse. People who set the good example are most believable.
re: #352 by CloudyDay
“When Jesus returns, one big reason He does so is to save Israel and to defeat Israel’s enemies.
That, to me, is a very pro-Jewish/pro-Israel message.”
But that’s not the same script we’re reading from, you see.
This is for you Mandy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYjl61dYmt0
I like the post Wrath of G-d (I know you won’t see this ’til tomorrow after sundown). Cool nature video!
In the mode of a general blog…
YOU should all take a peek at this site.
Makes the blood run cold.
http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2009/08/obama-file-82-obama-communist-van-jones.html
Now that everyone has gone, I’ll just pick up the all the shreds of theology scattered around the room and drop them in the bin. Then I’ll spray to clear the odor of sanctity.
And close the door.
The atheist janitor service wishes all customers a happy week-end.
re: #369 by Overlook
It was a very good and interesting discussion.
“92 Sharmuta Sat, Oct 17, 2009 7:53:52am replyquote
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re: #63 snakedoctor
The right went off the rails. Nothing around here has changed.”
LOL