Guest post by TQC- tqcincinnatus
Predictably, Charles Johnson over at LGF 1.0 (as well as the rest of the nutroots side of the blogosphere) has been trying to use yesterday’s murder of abortion doctor George Tiller as an excuse to bash all pro-lifers, and by extension, Christians and other religious folks. In doing so, Charles exhibits in full glory the intellectual dishonesty that has become a trademark of Little Green Footballs, 1.0.
Intellectual dishonesty may be defined as any one of the following:
- The advocacy of a position which the advocate knows or believes to be false or misleading
- The advocacy of a position which the advocate does not know to be true, and has not performed rigorous due diligence to ensure the truthfulness of the position
- The conscious omission of aspects of the truth known or believed to be relevant in the particular context.
We see these in Charles’ treatment of this issue, in a number of ways.
First, of course, is the entirely unsurprising effort to use a few cherry-picked extreme statements garnered from the comment sections of a few “right-wing” blogs. Nevermind the fact that these statements don’t represent the views of these blogs themselves, nor do they represent the views of the conservative mainstream who opposes abortion. You’d think that Charles would have learned this lesson by now, given the number of times in the past that he has complained about the cherry-picking of comments from LGF 1.0 for use against him by other left-wing blogs.
Nor is it intellectually honest for Charles to condemn many of these statements at all. Let’s face it – if the news of the day yesterday had been the walk-up murder of someone like John Demjanjuk, the accused former Nazi prison camp guard who was most likely responsible for the death of thousands of Jews in the concentration camps – many of the LGF 1.0ers would have been screeching like hoot monkeys in approbation of the event, and it’s highly unlikely that Charles would have disagreed with them in spirit, if not in rhetoric. There would have been a pervasive (and in that case, correct) sense that justice, so long denied by the legal system, had eventually been served in a sort of cosmic karma-trip.
Well guess what, Charles? From a purely intellectual standpoint, there is an entirely understandable sense of this with respect to the murder of George Tiller. Let me be clear on this – George Tiller was not a hero. He was not a guardian of liberty and freedom. He doesn’t deserve the eulogisation that he is receiving. He was not a good man. He was an evil man – as evil as any Schutzstaffel man who ever walked a turn at Dachau. George Tiller made his livelihood by sticking scissors into the backs of little unborn babies’ heads and cutting their spinal cords. And just because YOU don’t personally find anything wrong with baby-killing, Charles, doesn’t mean that others have to agree with you. And guess what – people are not reprehensible for not shedding tears that a man like George Tiller met his fate. Pro-lifers are not hypocritical in the least for perhaps being relieved that one of the most notorious baby-killers in the country is no longer serial killing. Their relief is the same felt by Jews when an old Nazi dies, or that felt by a rape victim when her assailant leaves the land of the living.
Just to be clear – I am not approving of the murder of George Tiller. I do not applaud the fact that, by all accounts, a man named Scott Roeder walked up to him and put a cap in him. I do not think that it is right to commit one wrong to settle another. I think it is hypocritical for someone professing to be a pro-lifer to protect life by killing someone else in cold blood. Further, I do not think it is ever right for a private citizen to take the law into their own hands and murder a fellow citizen, no matter how reprehensible they may find them to be. I believe strongly in the rule of law – and find vigilantism for any reason to be a strike against the very foundation of our societal basis. Nevertheless, I don’t think certain people are hypocrites or evil because they won’t be shedding tears for George Tiller. I realize, Charles, that you probably don’t have the wits to recognize the distinctions I am drawing, but they’re there for you anywise.
Secondly, Charles and the rest of the left-wing blogosphere seem to want to try to use this one incident as a means of blackening the reputation of the entirety of the pro-life movement. That’s called a “division fallacy”, since it assumes that because one pro-life individual committed a heinous act, that this calls into question EVERY pro-life individual.
Indeed, the entirety of Charles’ evidences linking this individual to “the pro-life movement” consist of a couple of comments made on pro-life websites and a sticky note found in Roeder’s car with Operation Rescue’s telephone number on it. Sure, because as we all know, the only people who post on websites are people who belong to the group owning the website, and the only people capable of writing an organisation’s phone number down on a sticky note are people who are members. Sure Charles, whatever.
Thirdly, Charles seems to think it’s pertinent that Roeder apparently belongs to the “sovereign citizen” movement, because that shows that Roeder must be hooked up hard core with the pro-life movement. Other left-wing sites appear to feel that this “proves” that all conservatives and pro-lifers and Christians are murderous nuts just waiting for the chance to pop a slug into someone.
Nevermind the fact that, as Charles’ own link shows, the “sovereign citizen” movement is linked up with the “Christian Identity” movement. I know about the CI’s – a guy I knew in college tried to recruit me to them and gave me a bunch of their literature and whatnot, before I told him to take a hike. The Christian Identity and allied movements don’t actually like mainstream conservatives all that much. They think we’re “compromisers.” The CI’s also don’t like mainstream conservative and fundamental Christianity all that much, either – they criticize biblical fundamentalism for, among other things, being concerned about the integrity of the Biblical text (which the CI’s actually think is unimportant), not believing that “white, Anglo-Saxon people” are the “true” Israel, and for not supporting (drum roll please) violent political responses to what we see going on in this country (i.e. holding to Romans 13). And don’t even ask what the CI’s think about Catholics and mainline Protestant groups.
In other words, Charles and the other lefties are attempting to link this Roeder’s sovereign citizens/Posse Comitatus/Christian Identity milieu with mainstream conservative and fundamental Christians, conservative Catholics, pro-lifers, etc. And that’s intellectual dishonesty, because anyone who actually knows anything about the issue knows what great chasms exist between the two camps – Charles and the others on the Left haven’t done their homework, and are just relying on guilt-by-association tactics (a favourite of Charles’, by the way).
Oh, and guess what Charles – no true Christian would go and take up a gun and kill somebody else in cold blood while taking vengeance on them for something.
And before you screech about “No True Scotsmen,” keep in mind that that logical fallacy only applies in cases where there is no normative definition of the class of thing under discussion. Sure, there’s nothing written down anywhere that defines a true Scotsman as someone who wouldn’t kill a child horribly (to use the most common exposition of the NTS fallacy). But there IS a normative definition of what a Christian is and isn’t, what a Christian would and wouldn’t do – it’s called the Bible. And the Bible says,
“Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.”
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21)
“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)
What this means, Charles, is that someone who goes out and commits cold-blooded murder isn’t a Christian. By definition.
So Charles, while you may have gone crazy and rejoined the nutroots over in the low-rent section of the internet, I’d at least like to ask you to display a little bit of intellectual honesty, even if I don’t think it’s feasible to expect it from everybody over there on your side.
I originally posted this in the other Tiller murder thread below just a moment ago; hope you all don’t mind me reposting it here:
Pat Robertson just condemned the murder of Dr. Tiller on the TV show “The 700 Club,” which is a “Christian” TV show (it features news and interviews from a Christian perspective).
Robertson is a self-professing Christian who is one host of “The 700 Club” show. I’m sure you can find Robertson’s comments regarding Tiller on the “700 Club” show’s web site later today or tomorrow (just do a web search for the phrase “700 Club” to get to their site).
Anyway – I was at some guy’s blog, and I saw this in that blog’s side bar:
Uh, why would they not be trying to distance themselves from Roeder?
The fact is, most pro-lifers do not murder abortion providers, Mr. Johnson, nor do they condone such actions, but they realize people such as you are quick to make guilt-by-association type arguments. Hence, the quick jump to distance themselves from it.
If pro-lifers did NOT attempt to distance themselvels from Roder’s actions, no doubt Johnson would berate them for not condemning the act, so they’re danged if they do, and danged if they do not.
(Recall the number of times LGF 1 members have criticized “moderate” Muslims for not speaking out more strongly, or more often, against violence by radical Muslims.)
I guess it is highly likely that Roeder killed Tiller because Tiller performed abortions, but even in articles I’ve seen published today, none of these reporters even know what the motive was; they are only assuming it was over abortion, because they found someone with the name “Roeder” who has published anti-abortion rants on the web.
What’s more, the last I saw, the journalists are just assuming that Roeder is Tiller’s killer, because the police have not yet released the name of a suspect in Tiller’s murder.
Dang Savage, the ink wasn’t even dry on the last one yet, lol.
Because Liberals Say So.
Well pretty typical Charles Johnson guilt by association.
Here is the video at google, it is graphic but I fail to see any solicitation for murder, but that doesn’t stop old Charles.
Pretty ironic that he pleads for the rhetoric to be toned down while making those extreme and outrageous accusations. And I suppose he will “man up” and take responsibility if some unhinged poster at his website hurts some anti-abortion person, or any Christian?
Michelle Malkin reports
#3 bar
You quoted Johnson as saying,
Roeder probably did kill Tiller over abortion -but- what I find sad or hypocritical is back when I was a LGF 1 member, people always said, “Don’t jump the gun; wait for all the facts to come in before you draw a conclusion.”
That was especially the case when a story would pop up about someone killing people; many “Lizards” would jump up to say,
“I bet the killer was a Muslim,” but then plenty of other “Lizards” would say, “Let’s wait at least 24 hours for more details to come out before we make conclusions about this.”
This is almost as sad as the time Johnson equated Christians with violent Muslims terrorists only because both share a belief in a literal, six day creation story.
By condemning Roeder’s actions, pro-lifers have, in a sense, already “taken responsiblity” for him or his actions, even though I don’t think it’s entirely necessary that they do so, because, obviously, most pro-life individuals do not murder doctors who perform abortions.
re: #2 by m
Hey, it’s good, what can I say?
re: #5 by savage
Someone killed a recruiter in Arkansas. Fuck Charles.
damn
He was also in militia movements for over a decade and had been arrested with explosives.
Same kind of crap liberals do when somebody, maybe, yells “kill him” at a Sarah Palin rally, either it didn’t happen or Palin doesn’t hear, and all of a sudden everyone who went to the Palin rally was a potential assasin and Palin supported the notion.
What about the two soldiers shot outside a recruiting station today. One has already died.
If it turns out it was someone opposed to the war in Iraq, than everybody in MoveOn.org and Code Pink and Veterans for Peace and the entire Demonratic Party are potential troop murderers, right?
I’ve donated money to Texas Right to Life and have never shot at anybody, let alone an abortionist.
Exactly, m, exactly
The Killer of Dr. George Tiller Had No Right to Choose Murder
Excerpt:
you hit the nail on the head savage. Intellectual dishonesty is the thing I found most troubling about LGF. He knows damn well that pro-life groups don’t support murder.
The sad fact between the left and the right is that while the right will condemn such heinous crimes, the left will either defend or remain silent on them.
How many lone loon stories have we heard from the MSM regarding muslims leaving a Friday mosque meeting and going into a Jewish center and killing people? How many acts of violence have been committed against our troops here at home?
They are never representive of the whole, yet the left will always try to take that Grand Canyon leap in illogic that this proves all Christian Conservatives are frothing murderers.
re: #12 by exceller
He is a lying scumbag and a traitor to Western values. Fucking skunk…
re: #12 by exceller
By the way, tqcincinnatus wrote that essay, not me. I just wanted to share it right away.
All the credit goes to him, I’m just the messenger.
Great essay!!!
re: #12 by exceller
No, maybe he is not aware of his rank intellectual dishonesty.
To become a real liberal, there has to be a suspension of logic, a willing choice to put what you want to feel is right and correct over what actually is right and correct.
For example, the UN is useless, everyone can see it. They had one good moment when the USSR was boycotting the UN because they hadn’t admitted Maoist China as a UNSC member yet, and voted to defend South Korea. But they are a complete waste since then. They condemn Israel and the US regularly, and nations like Saddam’s Iraq, Iran and Libya sit on the human rights council. Their atomic weapons program is a joke.
But liberals believe the US always needs UN permisison to defend itself.
Welfare- it has created a permanent sub-class in the inner cities, and made fathers superfluous. Republicans forced Clinton to pare it back, with great success, Obama is trying to increase it to sizes never seen before.
Good feelings triump over good results.
Chuckles the Dancing Clown may not see the rank dishonesty in his own actions.
What I don’t get is this desparate grasping at the pro-life movement thing. If it was a concrete fact the media would be all over this.
Seems to me the connection is tenuous at best. It also seems like this guy had some issues.
So why isn’t the MSM out there crowing that this was a “lone loon?”
Exemplifies the overwrought libral outrage
http://sigmundcarlandalfred.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/obamas-outrage/
This just shows the Left’s hypocrisy. When Islamists commit acts of war or Terror the Leftists and pro Muslim people say it has nothing to dwo with Islam. When an extremist like this commits muders, they say it reflects all Pro Lifers. Does anyone smell Hypocrisy.
Ok – Rodan, you said it way better than I did!
I believe that I am no ones judge.
I believe that everyone must answer for his/her own actions.
I believe that a woman should be able to decide what she can and cannot live with.
I believe that a baby that can survive outside the womb, should be given every chance to do just that.
I believe that Karma keeps score.
I believe that someday I will be expected to answer for my actions, not those of my parents, children or neighbor.
I believe that evil draws evil.
I believe that is what happen with Tiller.
Aw crap! I just heard some lunitic from Operation Rescue “applaud the murder.” Isn’t that just lovely!
So when do the Phelps chime in?
Charles has become the spitting image of that which he used to so articulately condemn. It is very sad to see the the intellectual degeneration of what I used to feel was a fine man.
23. vapig
Operation Rescue has always had its fair share of loons starting with Randal Terry.
re: #24 by Speranza
I don’t know him, what do you think changed? Money, new relationship? Those are my first suspects when I detect a 360 in someone.
Full disclosure – I am a pro choicer in that I do not want to outlaw abortion although I deplore the very concept of abortion. Yet I know so many decent people who are against abortion on moral grounds and are not fanatics and do not support the bombings of clinics or the murder of doctors.
re: #26 by vagabond trader
That’s it! He has a new libtard girlfriend! S’plains everything!
re: #28 by vapig
A libtard GF with a nifty trust fund,lol.
re: #26 by vagabond trader
I suspect a new relationship (although I have no proof) because I have seen that happen with other people once they are involved in a romantic relationship with someone of the opposite political persuasion. I also think in his heart of hearts he never felt comfortable on the “right” side of the political spectrum. A therapist once told my friend Victor something that was so true and yet so simple and obvious that I never forgot it – “People return to what’s familiar” and I think Charles went back to what was familiar to him. That is why so many people keep making the same mistakes in relationships (finding abusive relationships), jobs (taking the wrong kind of job for them), friendships (finding friends who are users), etc, i.e. familiarity is what is comfortable and recognizable for them. My sister had a terrible relationship with my father yet all her boyfriends and ultimately her husband were just like my Dad.
re: #23 by vapig
Are you referring to this?
Pro-Life Activist Says Doctor ‘Reaped What He Sowed’
re: #27 by Speranza
Hey that’s cool. It’s your opinion. I detest abortion and feel it is wrong. however, I have no beef with it being legal in the 1st Trimester. People will do it anyway and the illegal clinics will hurt people. So an outright ban could be worse.
I am for changing the culture so these acts are rare. However I am on the Pro Life side and definetly feel that late term abortions are infanticide.
re: #30 by Speranza
Very insightful and true.
re: #30 by Speranza
Icarus was just mad about 9/11. He allied against islam because he really doesn’t like religion anyway. However when he realized that most of his allies where people of faith, he needed a pretext to break with them. The ID vs. Evolution thing gave him his opening.
His beef with Spencer/Geller is more personal than anything. He really could care less about the VB. he just goes after the VB because they are Flemish Traditionalists that don’t want Islam in their country.
re: #31 by CloudyDay
If that’s the money quote, I don’t see a problem with it. Harsh reality and all.
My position was spelled out on other posts so I won’t go back into all that again. But for those who support the murder of Tiller, your most logical argument is simply this:
Since Roe v. Wade, 40-50 million innocent lives have been murdered. Mr. Tiller was arguably a very high conspirator if not a principal in the war on the unborn. You might even call him a General.
So the question is this, would any civilized person knowing the atrocities committed by the likes of a Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, or Amin hesitate to assassinate on of these madmen?
Because if the analysis is whether Tiller is participating in acts of widespread evil that is an easy answer – he is a soldier or I should say was a soldier in a holocoust that is the greatest the world has ever known.
For my part, I understand the relief that he is not free to continue his evil; but, what my Faith says, and it is what I believe, is that we are not to murder another human being under any circumstances except in self-defense.
Thus, the next argument, if the defenseless cannot defend themselves is this not an act of self-defense? I understand that argument too but I side with not embracing the cycle of violence begetting more violence.
Lastly, for alll who have commented, remember, this particular issue is perhaps one of the thorniest; I do not profess to have the answer. Contemplation in Prayer is the answer. That may sound polyannish but it is the way and the truth. For those who differ in opinion, I earnestly can respect and feel your positions which make a lot of sense.
Tiller Suspect “Suffered From Mental Illness”
Excerpt:
1,000s of Anti-Abortion advocates say this was wrong.
1 says that it was right.
Yup, that one represents the entire movement more than the 1,000s.
Down with Anti-Abortion advocates…they are for murder.
/
In the same vain then I would like to blame every atheist for every murder NOT done in the name of G-d.
/
re: #31 by CloudyDay
I have no idea. I’m just sittig here at the puter and hear from the radio exactly what I just wrote. Some disembodied voice, who the newsguy said was from operation rescue had this to say, and I hear the guy saying he applauded the act. It’s so unhelpful. Why would this idiot pop off like that?
Let me explain myself here. I’m torn on this issue with the, “on the one hand vs the other hand,” to the point I’d resemble one of those Hindu gods with 16 arms.
First off, murder is wrong – period. Second, while I really hate what this man gleefully did for a living (he also unlawfully hid records of underaged girls who probably were the victims of rape) I also don’t let the women off the hook.
Why in the world would you wait to the point that you would actually be party to letting someone deliver your baby only to have it’s brains sucked out? If you’ve delivered it 4/5ths of the way why not just finish up and give it up for adoption? Why isn’t THIS viable any more?
Third, besides all the hysteria (likening radical pro-life whacko’s with al qaeda – you can only use Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph so many times before people rightly start ignoring you) over violence against abortion clinics and abortion doctors, you can still count the attacks on both hands. Truth is, they still number less than 10 in over 40 years.
My problem with this idiot vigilante is that the timing is just great, isn’t it? More than half the country is now against abortion and now the left is going to unmercilessly hammer away at this on so many levels (guns bad, killing babies good) that that DHS memo on right-wing extremists is going to seem tame after this.
The dems have already proven they will not let any crisis go to waste. They will not waste this opportunity (and believe me, they see this as an opportunity) to push their agenda forward. And their agenda is part and parcel of disarming the public and removing every state’s restriction on abortion. Oh – and criminalizing conservatism/religion/etc., etc., ad nauseum.
36. wright1
I don’t recall anyone at this blog condoning or approving of Tiller’s murder.
I left some comments for you in post #258 in the other Tiller thread.
You will have to scroll down that post a bit to get to the comments I left for you.
re: #34 by Rodan
Good points. He reminds me of Pat Gondell and Christopher Hitchens – we applaud them when they bash the Religion of Peace but it turns out that they hate all religion and in Hitchens case (but not Gondell’s) he hates Israel as well. In fact someone wrote that Israel is the only nation that suffers from Islamic terrorism that Hitchens has zero sympathy for.
Charles could not care less about VB and Geert Wilders – you are right, he just needs it as an excuse to continue the feud with Geller and Spencer. Geller is a bit over the top but she is totally harmless and actually does a lot of good. His obsession over ID and Creationism borders on the psychotic.
Well, there ya go! The lone loon defense. I stand corrected!
re: #33 by vagabond trader
Thank you very much. I cannot express how sad I feel at the change in LGF and Charles Johnson. Sort of like finding out a man or woman you admired and respected turned out to be a crook or a whore. I am glad that this blog exists and much thanks to “m”, “Rodan”, and “Savage Nation”.
re: #32 by Rodan
we are on the same page.
re: #38 by WrathofG-d
Ha!
re: #28 by vapig
Sharmuta will NOT be pleased.
re: #40 by vapig
You have that right Vapig. The Obama administration is cooking up a scheme to exploit this as we speak.The media needs to stfu,they are enablers and I blame them for any further violence.
re: #32 by Rodan
I don’t like abortion. To me it’s killing a baby for birth control. Which it mostly is. The strawman of incest and rape is just that. It happens so rare it barely makes statistics anymore.
However, having dealt with Russia (whose people are jumping up and down and screaming at us to NOT do this) and their socialized medicine, you’d be horrified at the death rate among their women. Nevermind just regular childbirth (they have a horrific mortality rate) but their abortions (they have more abortions per live births – they are a dying people still) are really life threatening.
Women here think they’ll just be able to go in and leave with no affect to their lives. If this marxism takes hold and he socialize our healthcare, more women will be permanately scard for life with no ability to ever have children again. That’s if they make it out of the hostitals alive.
I said this before on another thread, but maybe it is more appropriate here.
How obnoxious it is that one who constantly attacks religious values dares tell anyone that the way they are acting is “unchristian”?
Only a hypocrite could support gay marriage, deny Creation, call the Bible phooey, support abortion, support adultery, etc., then turn around and lecture another on what it is to be “christian” or not.
Sure, maybe killing an abortionist is “unchristian” but so is the abortion itself! Where are the cries of disapproval, and smearing of an entire group for that? What is more “unchristian” – thousands of abortions, or one killing? Or how about gay marriage which is also forbidden by the Bible – thus “unchristian”, or adultery for that matter!?
I don’t think one who makes their bones denying the beliefs of highly religious people by supporting abortion, gay marriage, adultery etc., is in any position to give lectures regarding what is and is not “christian”.
as it is often said – *spit*
re: #49 by vapig
Vapig,did you ever read anything by Dr Nathanson? He was involved with getting Roe v Wade on the books and also a founder of NARAL.When ultrasound came in about 1973 he quit the abortion industry. Very compelling story, he converted to Catholicism in the 90s.
http://www.aboutabortions.com/Confess.html
re: #47 by LanceKates
Evidently, neither will that irish rose chick!
re: #52 by vapig
She makes me sad for some reason.
50 Wrath of G-d:
Good points.
Palin issues statement condemning George Tiller’s murder
re: #54 by CloudyDay
Classy lady.
re: #51 by vagabond trader
No – but as someone who was totally indoctrinated in high school that abortion was just flushing some unwanted cells, I understand.
As I’ve explained before, I was taught both at school and some fool church that abortion wasn’t killing a baby.
My school actually compared a baby to cancer – that they were just both splitting cells and fit the definition of life and could both kill the host. Really, not kidding. While my church insisted it wasn’t a “person” until it took it’s first breath. The Bible and God say different.
It was with technology and doctors that I, too, changed my mind, or rather, saw the light.
Like an ex-smoker, I’m rabid on this. I HATE how I was lied to when I was a child. I can’t tell you how angry I have been at libs for their brainwashing. I got those punks when they came out of college fresh from their protesting days and everything was freaking political, just as it is now.
re: #41 by CloudyDay
I am not saying anyone is condoning it but there are many who feel relieved Mr. Tiller has left this world. I am honst enough to admit that is my view as well.
Perhaps I am engaging in lawyerly queries but I am saying that a case can be made logically for Mr. Tiller’s murder. That was my point. No I do not support that but it is not a hard case to make.
re: #50 by WrathofG-d
That’s the logic of Kid Icarus! He is an expert on what it means to have faith!
Let’s just be honest about what is going on here. Religious people are being made to deny their beliefs to please the larger secular world.
Do you really think that most of those who are criticizing and smearing the Anti-Abortion advocates really care?
The same people who were attacking Anti-abortion people yesterday are now “shocked” by the unChristian, and horrible killing today!
Any killing like this is bad, but let’s not fall for the crocodile tears of liberals, and those who hate anti-abortionists.
Really, where were they when millions of babies were getting killed, or thousands of gang members were being killed in the streets of the inner city? I could go on but you get the point.
The usual suspects are capitalizing on this singular, minimal event to attack religion, religious institutions, and the anti-abortion movement.
Those who were attacking Christians on the street corner yesterday have simply moved their soap box to on top of the grave of this abortionist!
re: #57 by wright1
the guy was scum, doctors take an oath to save life, the only type of person that could do what he did is a psychopath,
he must have taken pleasure in it or he would have stopped it years ago.
good riddence to bad rubbish.
re: #56 by vapig
Gah, I missed those “enlightening” lectures. If you get a chance check out the link about Nathanson, #51. He recounts the deceit that was used in promoting abortion in the 60s and 70s.Yeah, they never told us this stuff in nursing school either.
re: #59 by WrathofG-d
There is much truth in what you are saying.
I just think that you have to be careful endorsing vigilanteism, as inviting as it might be, for in this instance, it is quite inviting.
re: #60 by justin case
Thousands of them, blech. How the hell could you look at your own precious kids and grandkids and not think about this.$$$$$$,that’s how.
re: #41 by CloudyDay
You were saying…? FYI – This is the view of “Justincase” – and as I have said repreatedly, it is not a position without merit.
“the guy was scum, doctors take an oath to save life, the only type of person that could do what he did is a psychopath,
he must have taken pleasure in it or he would have stopped it years ago.
good riddence to bad rubbish.”
re: #50 by WrathofG-d
Well said, Wrath.
Ma Sands told me about this last night.Remember the overloaded private plane that crashed in March? Gave me chills!
http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2009/03/abortion_chain.html
re: #64 by wright1
well why not, we dont hold back when they toast a jihadi, we will crack open a bottle if they nail bin laden or that dent head sidekick of his.
yeah we hate them and this guy was in the same league. fuck it.
Hey OT.
Killgore and Walter Newton are fighting each other!
re: #62 by wright1
I am not, and have not commented on the legality of the act, or whether it should be legal. I also have not commented on whether I believe the killing of the abortionist was right or wrong.
I am only stating what is really going on here as I see it.
Thousands of people are killed daily, what really makes this individual more important than the rest? Furthermore, one has to look into who is so “shocked” and “concerned” now.
I really see it all as a farce, and nothing more than politicking.
I also this week have a very short fuse for those who do not study, or read the Torah/Bible lecturing others about what it says, etc.
Last week we are told that the Bible was a “silly book of allegory” and anyone that takes it literally or as a blueprint to live their life is a backwards moron. But now the same people claim that “we must follow the sections that clearly say ‘do not kill’”
whatever!!
re: #67 by justin case
You are at least being intellectually honest about it. While I cannot endorse it, it makes perfect sense to me…
re: #64 by wright1
I don’t understand your question. I left comments for you at this blog in another thread.
Here’s the response!
re: #72 by Rodan
Wow if Walter L. Newton thinks you are a freak then you really must be freakish!
re: #71 by CloudyDay
That was in response to the notion that many are quite content that Tiller got what he deserved. Again, I am not necessarily disagreeing with that as a proposition.
re: #68 by Rodan
oh man those two have been at that for weeks now.
walter wants to take over as top man there,
but killgore stands in his way.
and irish hose is hated for the same reason.
its pathetic.
re: #61 by vagabond trader
Yeah – I would have gone through high school in the 70’s and have heard similar stories from both doctors and nurses.
Good news is that because technology has caught up most young doctors in training absolutely refuse to learn the technique and refuse to perform them in their practices. Abortion doctors are becoming a dying breed and I am thankful for that!
re: #69 by WrathofG-d
We should have a discussion some time on the issues of faith and religion. I am not as well versed in the OT as I would like to be but I can speak fairly fluently concerning the NT.
I have to get going but my sense on this issue is everyone is a bit testy and has an itchy finger.
But there really is not much disagreement on the demise of Mr. Tiller. We can all agree that it is a great victory for innocents. As to the propriety of murdering Tiller, each person must search their own heart on that one. But the answer is not simplistic.
With widely available birth control, parents eager for adoption, and the lack of social stigma against unwed pregnancy, WHY is abortion, legal or not, even a choice to be considered other than for the life of the mother?
There are not two more obnoxious people on LGF 1 then Walter L. Newton and Killgore Trout.
re: #79 by Speranza
Yea now that we all left.
(bah, dum, dum)
/
re: #79 by Speranza
I wonder who Charles will sidew with? My money is on Killgore!
re: #78 by goddessoftheclassroom
as a women you know the answer to that,
its because when the child is born the mother wants to keep the baby and the plans are ruined,
but if the problem just dissappears, then all well and good,
some women abort for reasons like not wanting to have stretch marks.
In his own voice hear this man claim to have killed over 60,000 babies.
Killgore layed down the law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
re: #83 by vapig
I think I will skip that.
re: #78 by goddessoftheclassroom
You got me goddess! {hiya!} Do we even have orphanages anymore? I really don’t think we do! It’s just preposterous to me!
re: #80 by WrathofG-d
lol!
re: #64 by wright1
You are mistaking the refusal to shed a false crocodile tear with advocating vigilantism.
re: #83 by vapig
Whoa, even more reprehensible than I thought.Would not want to be him on judgement day.
re: #79 by Speranza
Umm, I can think of a few.
re: #89 by vagabond trader
Yeah! Really cold and clinical, wasn’t he? Gak! I mean, those were all people!
You know, on the other side of that stupid coin, how can feminazi’s say they support women when you know at least have of all aborted babies are girls – future women.
I will never understand these people – and I used to be those people!
re: #91 by vapig
Creepy.I have no respect for NOW types, they are a pile of heartless female hypocrites. Right down there with the ACLU and the UN, imho.It’s all about power and money.
103 Blazer in RIC
6/01/09 2:49:11 pm reply quote 0downupreport
O.K. Charles here’s what Irish Rose posted on the Overnight thread from the other night:
414 Irish Rose 5/31/09 7:21:29 am reply quote
* 0
* down
* up
* favorite
* report
By the way, I’m still taking submissions for my super-secret blog hit list.
Just FYI.
Would you not also interpret that as a veiled threat of violence?
And heres what she posted at AOSHQ the other night on Drews LGf II thread:
446 Do you know what it means to be “intellectually dishonest”?
You’re a smart enough person, so I’d guess that you do.
Since you seem to be a bit challenged in the honesty department, though, I’ll post the def here from Wiki:
Intellectual dishonesty is dishonesty in performing intellectual activities like thought or communication. Examples are:
* the advocacy of a position which the advocate knows or believes to be false or misleading
* the advocacy of a position which the advocate does not know to be true, and has not performed rigorous due diligence to ensure the truthfulness of the position
* the conscious omission of aspects of the truth known or believed to be relevant in the particular context.Now, you and I both know that Mr. Johnson isn’t collecting documentation about certain individuals simply because these people “disagree” with him… you know it full well.
So don’t be an ignoramus and post your intellectually dishonest crapola here. This blogger knows better and is going to call you on it.
Look, friend… this is the way it works in the real world:
Negative and dishonest actions and behaviors come with consequences, consequences that are usually painful… sometimes very painful. It’s a hard fact of life, and a sad lesson that we all have to learn eventually (some of us learn it sooner rather than later).
The arrogant blog jockeys who have been attacking Mr. Johnson relentlessly for months on end – slandering him in public and libeling him on every website that will give them the bandwidth to do so – have stupidly fooled themselves into thinking that they can’t be identified.
They also believe that they are above accountability, for some odd reason.
They’re wrong on both counts, as they will soon be finding out.
You didn’t really think that Mr. Johnson was going to let you get away with smears, slander and libel indefinitely, did you?
Your time of reckoning has arrived. So enjoy those painful consequences, friend… I hear that they go down good with a nice slice of humble pie.
Wow ! Sounds like threats of violence and retribution to me.
And since you love to out your detractors or those who dare have a difference of opinion with you and post their personal information and pictures here, and now you have a few of your Stepford children here with their own blogs taking up your crusade, by your logic if some deranged lizard that posts at this blog was to actually harm someone, we can then hold you and every member of this blog wholly responsible and expect that not only that person, but you yourself were prosecuted to the full extent of the law?
See how that works?
Go outside and get some fresh air Charles, obviously you’ve been huffing too much WD-40 while oiling up your bicycle chain.
This used to be a great blog. Too bad you dont spend more time looking at the real enemies of freedom on the left, instead of your imaginary boogiemen on the right. This place has long since jumped the shark.
and its still there, chas must be on the crapper. lol.
re: #93 by justin case Don’t we have a blazer? Way to go blazer!!
BRAVO TQC for one of the clearest and most logical statements I’ve read in many a year. You should write more often for public consumption.
I left LGF a long time ago. Who is Walter Newton?
She said MISTER Johnson? Things must be tough over at little green kneepads
re: #96 by Ed Mahmoud
A very unpleasant little toad who thinks he’s much more clever than he is.
POST OF THE DECADE.
The Truth Shall Set CJ and Co. Free.
OT: Obama trying to pressure Israel
PS – Now there’s a post up where Charles is trying to link the “freemen” movement with the Tea Party movement. Not in so many words, but it’s still pretty evident.
As far as I know, the idea that an individual is sovereign, and not under the Constitution, has nothing to do with the new conservative movement.
But if Chuck has his way, he’ll twist it so that everyone with an anti-obama sticker on their truck is a potential ( or outright) murderer. Gee Charles, isn’t that a little like saying all muslims are hate-filled, satanic killers? Hmmmmm? HHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMM????
I’m sorry, but did someone replace Charles with a clone of A. Huffington? Seriously. This is way out on a limb-type-of-nuts to try and make the link between this guy and your average conservative American.
Of course, I know by now that this is what CJ does best. After all, he “exposed” Atlas AND Dan Rather, so I mean, who am I to question the almighty Wizard of Fraud about anything. pfft.
I can’t believe how fooled I was into thinking there was a conservative bone in his body.
PS – we need to contact all their advertisers and let them know that CJ has lost his mind, IMHO.
Woot! 100th post! Can’t say I got that one before!
re: #84 by Rodan
Oh noes,if he gets the boot must we allow the misogynistic Mr Newton to post here?
re: #101 by Owl
Holy Cow! Am I missing something. I just googled the Freeman and they seem to be big time supporters of Israel.
Is CJ saying the Tea Parties are being driven by the ……. Jooooooooos?
You GOTTA be kidding me! LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!
re: #103 by vagabond trader
Bite your tongue, Missy!
re: #105 by vapig
Ok, ….ouch!!!!
re: #104 by vapig
Vapig, dear child, you must understand, the Juice control most everything, and we’re working on the rest of the stuff.
re: #104 by vapig
In due time Israel will stand alone with no support from any nation. But they will still have the support of those who love the God of Abraham. I am proud to be in that camp.
Yeah, VT! their influence is sooooo pervasive that obummer is gonna screw them big time and has already cut them off at the knees.
I really wish, SADM and VT that I could let them know they have my support and to please give the finger to barrythepigking!
I feel strongly they cannot capitulate on anything else! Period!
re: #108 by song_and_dance_man
I think they might already be there – they just don’t know it yet. Or, maybe they do.
re: #109 by vapig
Here you go if you’re interested in sending them a note.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/feedback.htm
Army recruitment center killer is a Musselman.
3 abortion doctors killed by looneys claiming to act in the name of militias or the Christian God or whatever, versus how many killed in the name of Ba’al and his False Prophet Mahomet?
re: #107 by vagabond trader
That is the prevailing notion of the jealous.
re: #113 by song_and_dance_man
Heck, I’m a working stiff of a Juice and I’M jealous!
/
Hmmm, the Army recruiter killer’s middle name, Mujahid, means “Holy Warrior” in Arabic.
But I’m sure a Muslim opening fire on guys in uniform at an Army-Navy recruitment center has nothing to do with The Religion of Peace.
re: #83 by vapig
From that site:
What Does Tiller Do With The Dead Babies?
There is a screen cap on that page from his site where he lists what women can do after they’ve had an abortion at his clinic.
Here’s what it says:
I am not grasping that at all.
Why would a woman who went in for an abortion want photos, etc., of her dead baby?
And what is up with the phrase “premature delivery” used as a euphemism (spelling?) for “late term abortion?” That’s a bit like calling used cars “pre-owned.”
If you scroll down that page, there is more mind-blowing/ depressing stuff.
The page linked to above linked to another page with this content (and this page has photos of the dead baby):
That is just sickening.
re: #111 by vagabond trader
Thank you, deary! I may become a nuisance to them!
re: #116 by CloudyDay
This is a mockery of G-d and we know where that comes from.
Breaking News: Just heard guy who shot the recruiters was a recent islam convert.
This is starting to become a real issue here.
Betcha dollars to donuts he was converted in jail!
re: #118 by vapig
THAT is a decidedly Jewish trait.Nag nag nag. I’d give my piggy bank to hear my ole mama nag at me one more time in her special way.
re: #116 by CloudyDay
That is downright evil.
re: #121 by vagabond trader
Yea, because ONLY Jews nag right?
oPen tHRead UP!
re: #121 by vagabond trader
Jews don’t have a premium on nagging. Gentiles are just as proficient! With a hefty helping of guilt!
re: #116 by CloudyDay
tiller was a vile man
…it’s long past time for you folks to start dialing down the rhetoric and acting more responsibly — before anyone else is hurt or killed in
a shooting oran abortion clinicbombing.Fixed that for ya Charles.
re: #116 by CloudyDay
Gah, read some of the anecdotals.Made me a bit lightheaded and I used to be a nurse, have seen/heard it all.Beyond evil.
Murder not justified, pro-life leaders say – Baptist Press
re: #129 by CloudyDay
This will be ignored by the left who want to associate our faith with the insanity of Scott Roeder.
The left sucks. And Allah and Molech are smiling at their progress.
re: #81 by Rodan
I think he will side with Killgore too, although Sharmie loves both Killgore Trout and Walter L. Newton who is a foul mouthed would be womanizer. My sources tell me he tried to hit on news_junkie.
Umm . . . NO
You cannot cherry pick the Word of God — if your POV doesn’t stack up with all of Scripture, guess who needs to re-think his (not His) position.
re: #3 by bar
What pompous claptrap!
No Nancy, it’s time for anti-life groups to grow a pair, and take responsibility for the inane drivel that spews from their pie-holes.
George Tiller was one of yours, an anti-life practitioner that personally sucked the life out of near born children, benefited mightily from his niche market, and was never punished by the law for his murderous regime. That he was murdered by a lone madman is terrible. That he can no longer provide his ghoulish service for the anti-life community, is the only positive benefit from this crime.
Hey, Nancy, you shit-stain, if you don’t like the term anti-life, then don’t start with your chicken-shit mumbling of the term anti-abortion.
I, for one, am an unapologetic pro-lifer, which means all life. I don’t support murder by anyone, whether it is with a gun, or the facade of being a doctor. Sadly, Nancy, my pro-life stance even includes the begrudging acceptance of the right of mental midget cult leaders, like you, to exist.
re: #133 by no2liberals
Well since Savage and Rodan were part of the LGF movement for many years doesn’t that mean that LGF is responsible for everything they say or do (even here?)
BTW – Here is a link from a site I follow which gives a pretty good analysis on some of the issues the Tiller murder presents. Concerning the Tiller website, I recognize some of thse points were raised earlier in the thread but this article points out what type of “reaction” may or may not be appropriate and why:
http://www.spiritdaily.com/abortionkilling.htm
re: #134 by WrathofG-d
Henh.
Well, so were you and I.
I find the condition of the site now, versus when I left, to be completely reversed.
I also find it disgusting, the snide term “anti-abortion.” Two can play the “anti” game.
I know the left is fond of self-adoring terms, to describe the disturbing actions they approve of, while, conversely, using the most noxious terms possible to describe those they oppose. I, for one, will not give them a pass.
Lights out for me.
Johnson got a mention in the reader comments at Hot Air here
As a Christian, I’d like to say Thanks to DethMetalCookieMonst and Capitalist Infidel.
Here are some headlines I’ve seen on Google news (search term: “George Tiller”):
George Tiller Murder Prompts Second Look At Scandalized DHS Report – AlterNet
DHS Report On Right-Wing Extremism Looking Better After Tiller Murder – TPMMuckraker
…So you can see how some are using Tiller’s murder to justify the DHS report.
Leftists Using Tiller Murder to Advance Agenda
One kooky guy becomes unhinged and shoots an abortion doctor, and suddenly those on the left think this automatically validates everything in that DHS report.
Hi folks
This is my first post here, so I hope you’ll forgive me giving you my perspective on Charles & LGF.
A recent LGF article implied that Hotair and its readers are paranoid idiots for daring to imagine that the administration wants to silence critics.
This was just the latest in a series of articles seemingly designed to provoke conservatives, excuse Obama or execrate former allies on the blogosphere.
So I posted this comment on LGF:
Charles’s paper thin ego immediately kicked in and the inevitable happened. The comment and its poster disappeared in a puff of smoke.
I wonder if he appreciated the irony of deleting comments and banning someone for criticising a story about “silencing critics”!
I don’t object to Charles holding liberal views. I also hold liberal views on certain subjects.
I don’t object to him propagating his views on LGF. It’s his blog.
I don’t even mind him banning me – even though I’ve been an LGF member since 2003. If Charles can’t answer his critics and acts like a traumatised pre-schooler, that’s his problem.
If he wants to re-brand his site as a left-leaning, “progressive” blog, that’s up to him, too. He’ll lose conservative readers and, like John McCain before him, he’ll fail to pick up any new left wing friends.
I do object to him openly execrating former compadres. That’s beyond contempt. He could have dealt with his issues with Hotair, Pamela Geller etc. on the phone or by email. But I guess he wanted a public show to demonstrate his “integrity”.
If he sincerely cares about the threat to Israel or the war with Islamofascism, then the tactic of deliberate “friendly fire” is desperately counter-productive.
It is like the Monty Python scene of the Judean People’s Front attacking the People’s Front of Judea instead of the Romans….but the only people laughing this time are the enemy.
re: #140 by uptight
No, and he never will.
He holds himself in too high a regard, to entertain such notions.
Good riddance to a once good site, and welcome to the refuge of those who refuse to submit to a cult leader.
Well said, tqcincinnatus. Very well said.
The MSM and others continue to blame all pro- lifers / conservatives for Tiller’s death:
“Abortion-rights groups: Other side’s words led to Tiller death” – USA Today
“The far-right’s violent return” -guardian.co.uk
I haven’t been able to find it again, but earlier today, I saw a headline that read something like,
“Religious people to blame for Tiller’s murder?”
Another headline:
“Planned Parenthood to hold Seattle vigil for abortion doctor” – Seattle Post Intelligencer
I wonder if those behind the vigil have ever held a vigil for aborted babies?
Here’s an editorial from WSJ:
The Religious Right Didn’t Kill George Tiller
The left tries to smear ‘Christianists’ as akin to Islamic extremists.
Excerpts:
Thanks for sharing! It’s good to know that you will be entirely useless for the cause of liberty in the event of a revolution.
Should George Washington and John Hancock unquestionably have obeyed the rule of law? If they had, the revolution would have had no general, nor any money, and Britain would be tyrannizing the whole world.
“Christianists”
I think this label applies to some people. There are many who call themselves Christians but go around hating people and never leaving their tight circle to be with non-Christians. This is Christianism when it has violent tendencies and its adherents bear little in common with Jesus.