According to Chairman Sheila Bair it appears the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp (FDIC), you know the people who insure your bank account against the bank being stupid. They may be broke or worse by years end. The fund is currently at its lowest level in 25 years.
But given the accelerating bank failures that have been depleting the deposit insurance fund, she said, it “could become insolvent this year.”
“Without substantial amounts of additional assessment revenue in the near future, current projections indicate that the fund balance will approach zero or even become negative,” Bair wrote in the letter dated Monday to the chief executives of the nation’s 8,305 federally insured banks and thrifts.
I suppose the recently approved 3.5 trillion dollar budget couldn’t spare a paltry hundred billion or so dollars to keep the FDIC solvent. Not this administration, no that money is better spent giving it away to people who made bad choices or didn’t work for it at all. While hard working Americans who didn’t purchase a house they could not afford or take out a second mortgage just to go on a vacation they could not afford could get the short end of this fiasco.
That is the glaring difference between a Democrat and a Republican. Democrats want to expand welfare while Republicans want to create real good paying jobs. Give a man a fish and you will feed him for one day, teach him how to fish and you will feed him for life.
“Some have suggested that we should turn to taxpayers for funding,” she said in her letter to the bank executives. “But banks — not taxpayers — are expected to fund the system, and I believe Congress would look skeptically on such a course of action.”
Of course spreading the wealth is somehow now OK and giving taxpayer money to piss poor banks is just fine, but saving a families bank account is considered wrong?
WTF is wrong with these people?
To me this current thinking is backassward, instead of throwing money at losing financial institutions that are hemorrhaging money left and right, save that money to protect the depositors.
Tags: Barack Obama, Economy, Media, Moonbats, News
These people are hellbent on driving the Dow to ZERO.
Chaos theory, in motion.
Will the MSM cheer with each drop, as they did with KIA’s in Iraq? I would say, ‘What is happening?”. But it’s all part of the plan.
The economy has tanked since B. Hussein was elected. I hope the liberals are happy with their failing champion.
What happened to our avatars?
Yeah, I want my black square back
Yeah, where’s my Alex?
I’m not so sure I want my avatar back.
In the first place, that alien was downright obese. I may not be as slim as I once was, but gimme a break! Made me afraid to put on my blue sweater.
It also had a weird nose, trunk, or whatever it was. I don’t know what it was. I was always afraid to ask.
Very afraid.
I was hoping to get to sleep early tonight.
Okay. They’ve destroyed the value of sticks, so now they’re destroying the security of cash. What next? Corn Laws to exacerbate a potato famine? Collectivize the Great Plains?
Nightmare.
sticks= stocks
Although their environmental police will probably come after those of us who have wood stoves, so “sticks” may also be a target before long.
They just better hope middle fingers aren’t taxed to subsidize a new stimulus package because they will have many more frequent donors than are now participating.
I believe that sticks have been devalued also.
I got to see how to get the avatars back.
And I was thinking the devaluing of the sticks was the real property loss of the backwoods of Arkansas or Tennesee.
Avatars can be bribed with promises of fame and fortune.
/Very vain creatures they are.
Sparky, there are a few plugins for avatars but none of them seem to work.
I gotta see WTF I’m doing wrong.
Savage
I think Arwyn said she has a plugin for that, so avatars should be back soon.
Also did you hear about the big rig diver in LA that got jacked today, they run him off the raod and took his rig.
Damn kids!
Savage
Never mind about the plugin’s.
I see you are fighting them.
bar, every station here in LA is reporting on it.
And to think all those idiots stole were light bulbs out of China. That was all that was in that container.
Savage,
Good luck with that, just a matter of time. Everything is looking good. The topic selections and frequency are good and I think you have something here to build on. I feel like posting here isn’t a test of wits with the chosen ones. I do miss Alex the most, n2l is much more ominous that way.
WTF is wrong with these people?
Best question I’ve heard all day about these loons. What is this, the John Dillinger era all over again? Are bank robbers next? Glad you posted on this one, right on.
Love the new look here, BTW;)
Savage
You are kidding me? Light bulbs from China, that is great.
Yeah bar, they could have stolen electronics, copper wire, pharmaceuticals, anything with a high resale value that is easy to fence, but NOOOOOOOOOO.
Light bulbs. Sheesh!
Savage
So I guess its fair to say, they are not the brightest of the bunch.
That was cheesy.
Were they incandescent or fluorescent light bulbs?
OK, who’s UncleBuck and is he here? Saw the video at 1.0 the other day, hilarious!
Caught’em all off guard with that early morning slam at Charles. Wish I had tabbed it for you guys.
Just a what if. What if the FDIC does go broke and we all loose our savings? What if the stock market goes so low people have lost all their retirement? What kind of control would the general population be willing to go along with? What about something tantamount to martial law? Just food for thought.
Sparky,
My “videe well, oh my brother” has been neutered, without Alex.
Have to trade in my milk-plus, milk plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom for some sweet-iced tea.
Annie, if the FDIC goes tits up and taking on water, there will be a run on banks. Banks will not have the cash, riots will break out. It will be mass disorder, unfathomable uncertainty and fear, and time to head to your predetermined fall back position.
If action isn’t taken soon, to insure the FDIC doesn’t crater, the run on banks will begin soon.
I think the solvency of the FDIC is more critical to our national security, than bailing out the Big 3.
N2L
Here, here.
Gotta crash.
When it comes to the B-HO administration, Don’t Believe A Word.
Anyone here actually think Congress actually gives a shit about the general public?
I’m sure most of the members of Congress have their money well hidden.
Live Comment PREVIEW enabled… check out below the comment box.
It’s after midnight, I’ll tweak it later… hopefully it will let me move the preview above… We’ll see.
Not sure if this is the one we’ll keep, but we’re trying to find some cool stuff
You have to start typing to see it. Trust me, it’s there!
(ok, it should be. I hope I’m not the only one seeing it as Admin)
Y’all lemme know!
im looking for it!
bar,
I’ve witnessed anarchy, up close and personal. I was involved in the evac of Saigon in Apr 75.
It ain’t pretty. No, it ain’t even ugly, it’s hideous, and something none of us has to ever experience, or again.
I think AIG owns the pension fund for congress. That’s why it’s such a priority for the government to prop AIG up.
pimf=something I hope none of us
/night
It pops up under the comment box – And the gravatar is showing there too (I’ll get them back on each poster). This theme just doesn’t like plugins!
Maybe we don’t have avatars, but it looks a lot nicer then 1.0
Let’s see how the preview handles blockquotes.
Yeah, it shows those too! Kewl.
Guys, I’ll finish with the toys and such as soon as I can! I was without power for a couple of days and now I’m playing catch-up at work.
AKm,
I don’t see it.
I know I’m fading fast, but it ain’t showing.
/FYI.
In my 30 plus of paying attention somewhat. I recall talk about that the FDIC could not pay all accounts throughout the nation if all or most banks went belly up, but I do not recall the FDIC themselves talking about going insolvent!
You guys don’t see a preview of what you type underneath the “add video comment” button?
It said everyone not just admins! gaah! Ok, I have quite a few more to try.
bar,
Here is the short version of the story on coming home during the evac of Saigon.
AKm,
No ma’am!
It’s the same as it ever was.
N2L
That sounds like really crazy shit, if that goes down here, I hope I don’t shoot to many people.
Because I wont be asking a lot of questions in my panic, except how much more ammo do we have?
ggrrrr… It’s really cool too (but I won’t be like that and tell you how cool it is since you’re missing it and all)
Don’t worry- I’ll getcha one!
I hope it’s as cool as wearing no underwear.
Scary stuff, folks!
bar,
I can’t explain the sense of desperation, the primal sensations, that anarchy produces.
If it gets that bad, I’m gone to the boonies, with all my guns, about 8,000 rounds, my knives, slingshots, blowguns, and other accessories, where I have a lake, fishing, and hunting.
I won’t bother nobody, but nobody better mess with me, or even give me a hairy eyeball.
No 2 I’ve been seriously considering taking as much as possible and buying more inventory for my business. Course if everything tanks there will no one to buy it but hey I can put it in a box and stand over it with my 12 gage.
I really hate the idea of being on the left coast if that all went down.
Annie,
I don’t know what kind of inventory you have, but you do what you think is best.
I think we will all be alright, but it is just my nature to prepare, and highly recommend it. If TSHTF, and you don’t have a plan, you will be prone to panic, and if you panic, you are lost.
I have been doing some preparation but still have more to do. I tell my friends water, food, amo. They say what do you need amo for? I tell em “to protect my food”. They are all in denial. Guess I should get enough food for them to.
One thing to keep in mind.
If TSHTF, and you live in an urban area, you need to get away from there, tres vite. Too many people, that could come at you from too many directions, at any time of day or night. Even if you know someone who has a lake house, as long as it’s remote, you are better off.
It would be very ugly to be in LA with all the gang bangers, especially if you are the one with the food. I hear what you are saying but I don’t see how it’s possible to get out of the LA basin and protect your stuff.
Annie, in the event of a worst case scenario, and I’m talking anarchy, you will have to forget those people. They will make you dead. If they already display a mindset that isn’t capable of basic survival, they won’t be of any value to you.
I know it sounds cold, but I’ve seen healthy young men push elderly women out of the way, when it was a live or die situation.
One thing I’ve always been good at is knowing when to go. Maybe those instincts will kick in and I would know in my gut when it was time. Lately I’ve considered moving my business to TX. While the income wouldn’t be as good my survival rate might improve.
Annie,
In this hypothetical scenario, it would be up to you to determine which you valued most, your life, or your stuff.
I’ve made my decision, long ago, I have a plan. I can’t guarantee I could implement it, there might be obstacles to my egress, but I do have a plan, and the tools I need.
I do need to build a better first aid, and beyond, kit, with various surgical instruments, and anti-bios, but have everything else.
As soon as I can, after Mom passes on, I’m selling the house and possibly moving to Australia
On another note have you read the Hot Air blog on the Rushbo distraction?
Annie,
Texas is a very business friendly state, no personal income tax, either.
We haven’t been hit as hard, as some, by the economic down turn, though people just aren’t spending money like they used to.
Savage why Australia?
savage,
No matter where I’ve been, I always came back to Texas.
Like Lewis Grizzard said, the last time, when I got back home, I nailed my feet to the ground.
No2, you’re in TX? I was actually looking into the Austin area.
I’ve had about enough of the majority of the Congressional scumbags that lord it over the United States. And 80% of the worthless people in this nation.
Fuck all of them.
Annie,
No I haven’t. I seldom get over to HA, but listened to Rush today, and read the transcript at his web site.
I’m really out, stayed up too late, and 00:youhavegottobekiddingme:30hrs., will be here soon.
Annie,
I’m in Dallas.
Austin is alright, especially the burbs. Too many hippies for me in the city itself.
I’ll drink to that Savage.
Eww hippies smell bad.
Thanks, Annie.
There’s pretty much nothing for me here anymore. I need a drastic change or I’m gonna totally lose it.
What city Savage?
If you want to know how sad it is where I live. Octomom is only 20 minutes away.
Annie:
Octomom is only 20 minutes away.
That thing lives 15 mins from me. I live in Alhambra.
oh sheesh. Yea but I had Prop 8 riots go past my store. Your right, it sucks here.
yuk Annie
Have you looked into Ron Paul at all?
N2L
I assume that story is your story?
What an incredible story.
I am on the left coast, I just realized today I am not prepared for even a EQ.
He’s as big a scumbag as the rest of the louts in Congress. The hell with all of them, lying backstabbers all of them.
Annie
Ventura County here so about 50-90 minutes from Octo mom, that crazy ass bitch.
Savage grow up in the San Fernando Valley so did I until we moved.
Yep, Octomom is a dirty insane PIG!
I’d like to sterlize her to start with, take all her kids away, and toss the whore in prison.
bar, I grew up in North Hollywood.
What on earth makes these people think that just throwing money at things fixes it? OF all of the problems this new administration faces (i.e., ever encroaching socialism and removal of personal responsibility and rights), all we hear is one group after another demanding money.
How about if we start discussing how to move ahead as a FREE COUNTRY and stop spending our future.
I vote for sterilization and prison too plus get rid of those lips of hers.
That’s got to really creap out Angelie
And while the administration is spending our great grandchildren’s future they are distracting everyone with Rush Limbaugh.
Savage
If you grow up in say “West Hollywood” would you admit it?
I was born in Pacoima, should I admit that a white boy can be from Pacoima?
The Octo mom is the craziest woman I have ever seen and I have run into some really crazy woman.
grow = grew.
Damn even live preview doesn’t help.
bar,
My mom grew up in Pacoima. Paxton and Telfair. Grandma and Grandpas house was right there on the corner across from the grade school. The state tore the place down to put in the 118 and if you go over there, you can see whats left of the driveway and there are a bunch of pepper trees still standing.
If you look closely at those trees, they are full of nails from when Grandpa set up the pinwheels on the 4th of July. True story!
Savage
What a small world. And a great story, I would love to see those nails but that hood scares the shit out of me today. It all Mexican Mafia gang bangers.
My sister went to that school, she is about your age.
I grew up on Haddon Ave near Osborne.
Do you remember the Boy’s Big Boy in Burbank on Riverside and West Riverside, I go there about 1 time a month.
So there is quite a few of us in So Cal here. I’ve been here since 1977.
Annie
I got that beat, I am a native 1966 model.
LOL!
Annie
Its good to have you at the site and being a So Cal’er even that much more better.
bar,
That Bob’s in Toluca Lake I have been going into since I was 4 or 5. Mom and Dan never let me or my brother climb up and sit on the hamburger. grrr
Arwyn–it says “add video comment” though! Arwyn, you’re doing fine. It looks GREAT! And somehow more professional as well.
Where does “Octomom” live exactly? I see her only on magazine covers at the store and never open them. All I know is she had 8 kids via in vitro fertilization? Is that right? Er, wrong as the case may be?
Born, raised and still living in San Diego. But I am seriously considering a different state; California is going to hell in a handbasket.
bar,
Yes, that was my story, I was the SYM.
I’m tired of listening to the so-called independent, intelligent left bark in unison when the White House says speak, or contort themselves in a pretzel insisting that Obama is doing a good job. No, he’s not. He’s assembled the greatest collection of cheats, frauds, media whores, graft artists, hustlers, idiots, crooks, liars, yes-men, and natural born fools ever in the White House – a black hole of stupidity from which no intelligent thought can escape, as evidenced by their recent decision to cunningly pick a fight with Rush Limbaugh over who can be the bigger asshole. Regardless of the outcome of that fight, I can’t say I hope Obama fails as much as I have every reason to believe he’ll fail. I’m not alone in that, since every time Obama or Geithner give a press conference about the economy the market reacts with such revulsion that you’d think the White House was sacrificing babies in front of the reporters.
Not that people are questioning this in liberal-land. No, water cooler discussion about who is cool and who is failing to offer uncritical support is much more important. That listing of the Titanic’s deck just means the champagne’s kicking in, old boy!
“…you’d think the White House was sacrificing babies in front of the reporters.”
No, that’s happening back at the abortion clinics.
Bar
Did you come to Cali for the first Stones concert?
Lex
Octomom lives in Fullerton CA. She’s had all 14, including this last litter, invitro.
Annie
The stones are a little before my time.
Well, Locarno, I wish I could share your belief, but I think there may be a fatal flaw in what appears to be your logic.
You say, ” I can’t say I hope Obama fails as much as I have every reason to believe he’ll fail. I’m not alone in that, since every time Obama or Geithner give a press conference about the economy the market reacts with such revulsion…”
It appears that you believe he’ll fail because he and/or his supporters will finally get the message that the falling market is sending him about his policies. At the same time, you admit that there’s no water-cooler indication of alarm among his grass-roots support. You must have supposed that he will personally recognize the danger inherent in the market’s continued drop.
I suggest that you Consider the possibility that the market is doing just what he and his “brain trust”of liberal academicians want it to do. Where is that money going when it leaves the market? Gold. Some of it, but not that much. Bonds, particularly Muni’s, a lot more. The money goes, at various levels, to the support of GOVERNMENT ACTIVITIES. At the same time, it leaves the private sector where he moves government money in to buy control of financial activity and the means of production.
I agree, that the most likely cause of his failure would be his own actions in pushing his policies too far too fast, but since there are no indications of any such backlash thus far, I’m beginning to fear that it may take a full blown revolution.
He’s not stupid, even though he refers to the “profit earnings ratio”. He’s just a determined Marxist with the stated goal of “remaking the country” and he knows that he’ll never have a better chance to get that done.
I hope he will fail without a bloody revolution, but I’m nowhere near as confident as you are that that will happen.
Either he’s genuinely trying to fix the economy, in which case it won’t work, or he’s a Marxist, in which case it has never worked. Failure either way, it’s just what happens before the inevitable that changes.
Well, Locarno, you’ve got me there. For some silly reason, I took your first post to mean you believed in the likelihood of an Obama failure sometime within our lifetimes or even his. Considering how long it took the USSR to fall, you appear to have a lot more willingness to live under a Marxist dictatorship and wait for it’s invevitable demise than I do
Channel the money to be used for studying global warming to the FDIC, problem solved.
I think Conservatives should start cheating on their taxes…I’m serious!
The greatest error our citizenry ever made (outside of allowing the federal income tax in the first place) was to acquiesce in compulsory WITHHOLDING. It makes a tax revolt almost impossible.
obama caused this? he is been in power for a month and last time i checked BUSH was president for the last 8 years. where was the complaints on his spending. going to war on false pretenses costing us now 8-10 billion per month. no bid contracts where taxpayers were duped 150 billion so far as its been investigated by stewart bowen, deregulation of wall street, brownie and hurrican katrina, Starting the department of homeland security, giving tax breaks to companies that transfer labor overseas, the list goes on and on. let us not forget that since Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton and Bush Jr. globalization bullcrap has desimated our manufactoring and we don’t produce anything anymore. we borrow borrow and borrow. we sell our assets off and that was a republican stupid idea that democrats bought into. Wealth comes from production not consumption since its not sustainable longterm. Americans have accumulated 14 trillion in debt. Real wages have declined so greenspan decided to extend credit so we can spend more but on credit not our salaries. Republicans should just shut up considering the disaster they caused in the last 8 years!!!
how come you idiots are not upset about the fed’s filtering 2 trillion dollars to the bank’s because of stupid idiots on wall street. 2 trillion is alot of freakin money. this mess was caused by pure greed. corporations have spent the last 20 years in getting legislation passed that allows them to get slave labor in china, mexico or india in order to screw the american worker, triple their profits and just get us to buy their crap worthless shit!!! brilliant idea by the republicans. conservatism really works! We should be competing with industrialized nations not third world countries. how about merril using 700 million to distribute to their buddies in light of the company taking enormous losses. why does that not piss you off. instead you get pissed when i want better wages and healthcare coverage so i dont lose my house if i have a heart attack. I forgot, your bozo congressman wamp said on MSNBC that healthcare is a privledge!!!! so why the hell is he getting healthcare from taxpayers . freakin hypocrit. tax breaks are great but if i dont have a freakin job how the hell is that supposed to help me. Oh by the way I dont have healthcare now because I lost my job and my precondition makes my monthly premium 1200.00 per month. you guys are so brilliant why dont you come up with a plan or is it just about you you you and screw anyone else. healthcare is a necessity and insurance companies are making killer profits off of sick people. what a scewed up system
how about the money our government spends in protecting pipelines around the world. you think your paying 2$ per gallon but you have no idea. how about the 30 billion we give isreal every year in military assistance. why don’t we spend that here. How about the tax dollars we spend in hiring economic hitmen that ensure our corporations operate in third world countries freely without environmental regulations, labor laws, exploitation of workers,. I guess that is stimulation for republicans. how about making corporations pay for their own environment mess ups instead of getting the taxpayer to pay for it. Oh yeah Santelli’s Boston tea party, where was he when all this freakin billions was handed over (2 trillion )to be exact went to wall street. If you guys believe in the free market than why haven’t all the conservatives demanded to let the banks fail??? the market will correct itself right? i guess not by what is happening. Roosevelt instituted the FDIC in order to ensure depositors money. I guess that was a bad liberal idea. I am sure a republican would have thought of that. What about repubs refusing to place a minimum of 35 MPG on american produced cars. oh no bad idea since the Japanese were already 10 steps ahead of us. it would have decreased the amount of oil we use and given us more time to come up with alternative energy to replace oil. Remember oil is scarce so it will run out one day!!! You guys were against the governent subsidizing alternative energy instead we give tax dollars to oil companies making record billions in profits. Pure stupidity!!! BUSH IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF A REPUBLICAN.
How about soldiers not getting healthcare they need or treatment of post traumatic stress disorder. Suicide rates are higher than ever. What do we do, nothing about it. We send them to fight then its the hell with them. Walter Reed was a disgrace under George Bush. Under Bush they found out the VA privatized their record keeping so the soldiers were dealing with incompetance in addition to their injuries and emotional stress. People at the highest levels of of VA were told to turn away PTSD patients and pretend it was caused by something else so the government would not have to pay for treatment. 1/3 of homeless people are veterans. this is how we treat our soldiers. mccain would not vote for GI bill because he did not like the notation of a timeline out of iraq. oh yeah I forgot we have 10 billion a month to blow. His idea for stimulation was 3 trillion dollar tax cut in the next ten years. How will that create jobs when there is no demand. if 500,000 people are losing jobs per month, what the hell is a tax break going to do for me. I need a good paying job that the chinese took away from me, not an extra 300$ government check to get me to shut up!!!
Pat, why don’t you STFU and get the fuck out of MY country if you don’t like it? If you were in my office asking for a job and I heard your attitude, I’d dropkick you halfway across the state.
Take your Communist talking points and shove them up your ass, ya bozo
Pat comes here and pretends that Obama didn’t just quadruple the national debt in less than 30 days. But even if Pat realized that, its OK because he suffers from a monstrous case of BDS.
Beside the guy has nothing but strawman arguments, that way they are easy to knock down.
OK, Pat, now you run back to Charles and tell him you did real good, took up a lot of space and said all the things he wanted you to. Then you can stay there.
Savage wrote
Pat, why don’t you STFU and get the fuck out of MY country if you don’t like it? If you were in my office asking for a job and I heard your attitude, I’d dropkick you halfway across the state.
LOL!!!!!!!!!! I especially likes the ‘drop kick’ part…nice touch…LOL!!!!
he repub idiot, why dont you anwser my questions and points about the banksters and all the tax dollars they have stolen from us. 2 trillion does not seem to bother you. If you are so smart, what the hell is the solution to the 2nd great depression brought on by Bush and 6 years of a republican controlled congress. When facts get thrown in your face you dont seem to respond to it. Obama has no choice right except to try and stimulate the economy through investments. He didnt cause this mess, you guys did. You sent us into a war that was a shit full of lies. Any body putting pork in the bill should remove it immediatly however infrastructure spending, new technology= more jobs. you think the free market is going to fix this?? why not let the banks go down then. Oh how about the free trade crap that you repubs have been talking about for years. How is that working for you. America has no assets left because we do not make anything and we have sold off our country. Our manufactoring industries have been destroyed by your idiotic ideas of competing with chinese workers who make less than 2$ per day. sounds fair to me! We went from being the largest creditor nation to the largest debtor nation. BY THE WAY IF I CRITICIZE MY GOVERNMENT ITS BECAUSE I LOVE MY COUNTRY AND I KNOW IT CAN DO BETTER. you morons are like sheep, just follow and dont ask questions. i dont care if its a democrat or republican in power. My comments about how our soldiers are treated, make me unamerican!! I actually give a shit about our soldiers because they are treated like crap in this country. Go fight a war and then you are on your own. That’s respect? I call my congressmembers every week complaining about the lack of PTSD treatment that is causing many to commit suicide. What the hell are you doing to make sure they get what they need?? Keep listening to O’Reilly, he is a jack ass like ALL of you and that is why he has such a low approval rating. F$#K YOU!!!!
HEY BAR, OBAMA HAS BEEN SENDING MONEY TO YOUR DUMBASS BANKS!!!!!!! DID YOU FORGET ABOUT THE AUTO INDUSTRY, WALL STREET BAILOUTS!!!!!! AND SAVAGE, ITS NOT YOUR FREAKIN COUNTRY ITS OURS!!!!!!!!! DISSENT IS PATRIOTIC, NO BEING SHEEP LIKE YOU BEH BEH BEH!!!!
WE GOT YOUR POINT, PAT! DO YOU LIKE YELLING AT THE TOP OF YOUR LUNGS?
Liberalism, it truly is a mental disorder.
Hey “pat”
You tinfoil hat is on a bit tight don’t you think?
And Al Gore’s GAIA hat wasn’t meant for you to sit on, but who am I to judge?
111. pat on 6 March, 2009 at 12:28 am
Actually, the question on the original post was how come he couldn’t find a little green in that big ass stimulus to … i don’t know… STIMULATE something?
And dems have held congress since 2006. You can trace most of the bullshit back to that.
I bitched plenty. Or do you profess to know what everyone here was thinking over the last 8 years?
And the rest was just dem talking points that have been hashed out over and over. If you still believe Saddam was a good guy and didn’t deserve to be outed, all I can say is … there are plenty ready to take his place. Sit back and you may gain a new hero soon.
Pat opined:
And we were doing pretty fucking good up to 2006, too. But let’s blame Bush. That sounds so much better and is easier to swallow for liberal pussies.
“But if by a liberal, they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people–their health,their housing,their schools,their jobs,their civil rights,and their civil liberties–someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a liberal, then I am proud to say I’m a liberal.” September 14th 1960 Jack Kennedy
Ha Ha, Pat is a loon. Soon to be on a street corner near you.
Oooo…good come back pat!
And you are distinguished as being the very first to have a smiley used by me.
128. Song
And that’s not what I meant by liberal and pat knows it, lol.
It’s pretty funny that a liberal can still claim they are for any of the things pat mentioned.
Modern liberals are “all about me, me, lil’ ol liberal mee!!!! give me more! you owe me! i have a RIGHT to EVERYTHING!”
*snicker*
Arrwyn, we were doing good up until 2006? What planet were you living on????? This happened when Obama took over in just a month? oh yeah you mean americans were using their equity lines to buy boats, cars, furniture, ecc ecc. They bought homes they could not afford. and wall street was gambling instead of real investing. credit default swaps, 40 trillion dollars of derivatives, wrapping up bad loans with good loans: portfolios that were AAA rated so investors would think that it was a good investment. It was all fake based on debt. ALL OF IT BASED ON DEBT. This has been happening for quite sometime. I did not happen overnight.
that is why our economy is collapsing.
NOW MY SOLUTION: stop this free trade crap and start producing at home again. engage in trade but be smart and protect american industries. if you want americans to compete than compete against france, germany, england, industrialized countries. Protect our local farmers since that benefits our communities. Rebuild infrastructure which creates jobs. Help companies that want to start new technologies, green energy, and hire americans to do all the work.JOBS JOBS JOBS. Then close down all military bases in Iraq, Germany, Italy, France the old world war II bases. Cut the Pentagon’s budget. In Iraq, hire Iraqi’s to do all the construction and rebuilding work insteading of paying 10,000 per month for halliburton employees. Fire KBR, Halliburton and Bechtel and get contracts that are bidded on. Bring soldiers home which will save 2 billion per week. BANKS: follow STIGLITZ nobel economist rules of transferring assets and deposits to good standing banks, make bad banks write down losses, start over again and if they can survive great otherwise BYE BYE. stop throwing all this money at them like Geitner is doing. Follow Sweden’s model in 1990’s. THIS IS NOT A FULL SOLUTION BUT IT MAY HELP. Instead of us fighting why are we not joining together as the working class to fight all this corruption on wall street, in iraq, our politicians who have sold us out. Good conservatives like Nixon (minus watergate scandel). He had great domestic policies and believed in protecting american workers. Eisenhower who was against war profiteering. what happended to those good conservatives????
I haven’t even read all of your screed Pat, but yeah… up to 2006 our economy (you know… the things CONGRESS decides on) was just chugging along… even after 2 wars and after whole industries were on the brink of collapsing after 9/11.
What do you not get about 2006 being over 2 years ago? But yeah… in just a month Obambi has spent more than Bush did in his whole 8 years. But yet you defend him. Typical liberal.
And Pat, since you don’t like the way things were going in the banking system, I’m sure you have taken it up with the dems in congress that tried to hide and perpetuate the problems… haven’t you?
“there is no problem at fannie mae, or freddie mac…”
hey Arwyn, yes democrats had congress in 2006 but why didn’t repubs get together to stop all of Bush’s spending. My question to you is which republicans complained except Ron Paul, about all this spending that Bush and Cheney did??? Oh yeah I forgot it was Clinton’s fault, or maybe George Wasington’s fault, maybe Nixon??? Why can you not accept that Bush has destroyed everything he touches. Can you explain why so many conservatives voted for Obama and not MCCain/Pallin who can’t put a coherent sentence together. Bush did a great job, right!!! WORST PRESIDENT EVER. The point is there are bad dems and repubs and we need to get corporate money out of washington and keep our politicians honest. the problem is that corruption exist everywhere and instead of us fighting against eachother we should be fighting together. what a sad state we are in.
I blame Bush for spending too much. I don’t know where you get all of that.
Your point wasn’t about bad dems and bad repubs. Re-read your bullshit and try again.
Oh and Pat… that’s your opinion on the “worst president” part. Not mine, at all.
It would help if you would stop stating your opinions as fact. I know that’s hard for liberals to do.
arwyn, I called Senator chris dodds and other senate banking committee members (Schumer) complaining that throwing money at banks was not a solution especially if they are insolvent. that was also incompetance by Senator Reid and Pelosi. Instead of listening to Paul Krugman and Joesph Stiglitz, the economist newspaper, Dems went along with this disastrous plan and its only getting worse, My point is that this happened under Bush’s watch and his administration did nothing to stop wall street and mainly the banks from destroying themselves. Bush is to blame for this mess. Just accept it and try to vote for better republicans in congress. I am not telling you to vote for democrats, just turn the republican party into what it used to be 50 years ago when it actually cared about the working class.
Yes Bush was part of the executive branch which means he directs where the adminstration wants to go. IF he hired a bunch a crooks which I cant keep track of how many.; How could he not have forseen this gross problem on wall street. Even Repub Senator Bunning of Kentucky agrees with me that banks have to be regulated otherwise it causes a disaster. What I find interesting is that you have not explained what policies you believe in. Free market? Did you go to public school? Have you ever been on unemployment? How do you like that clean water that you drink because of regulations or maybe you would prefer less regulation like the melamine tainted infant formula from China??? What Bush policies did you support? Lets engage in policies not attacks!!
Actually Pat, when you come in here attacking I lose all interest in engaging. Then it just becomes – check out this dumbass.
If I wasn’t stuck on a conf call, I would have ignored your posts all together.
But you just keep attacking and claiming you want to engage. It’s not like I believe or listen to anything out of a liberal’s mouth (fingers) anyway.
Take that last post for instance… what the hell makes you think I (or anyone here) has ever said we should NEVER EVER REGULATE ANYTHING? … it’s stupid stuff like that that makes you look like a dumbass.
Arwyn, what’s the point in debating pat anyways? The guy is spewing out commie talking points and to be honest, the guy sounds like TFK
here are some facts for repubs who think Bush is just great!!! I’ll gladly debate any one of them:
-Guardian UK 03-13-2008 ” Saddam Hussein had no direct ties to al-qaida, says pentagon study”
-ABC news march 7, 2007 “Under VA Chief effort to aid wounded vets stalled, ex-employee charges.”
-NY times oct 12, 2007 “Former top general in iraq faults Bush adminstration”
-AP 9-03-2007 “2nd British ex-general criticized rumsfeld”
-BBC news 3-2-07 “Bremer quizzed over cash for iraq”
-ABC news april 5, 2007 “CIA hires terrorist group to operate inside Iran”
-BBC News Jan 31,2007 Iraq: US MOney squandered in Iraq
-Washington Post Feb.9,2007 Officals key report on Iraq is faulted (DUBIOUS INTELLIGENCE FUELED PUSH FOR WAR)
-Nat’l Security Council Jan 25th 2001 to: Condi Rice from: Richard Clarke (Pres. Pol. review: Al Queda Network)
-Washington Post April 6, 2007 “HUSSEIN PRE-WAR TIES DISCOUNTED”
-LA Times aug. 5th 2004 “The hand over that wasn’t” (Illegal orders give US a lock on Iraq’s economy)
BBC NewsMarch 9th 2006 “Bush Plotted Iraq war from start”
MNSBC July 25th 2007 ” memo refutes Gonzales testimony” (Documents obtained by AP contradict AG statements)
Independent of London May 3rd 2007 “Blood and Oil: How the west will profit from Iraq’s most precious commodity”
-President Exec. order #13303 may 22, 2003.
-BBC News march 21, 2005 “Secret US plans for Iraq oil”
-Times of london june 12, 2005 “Ministers were told of need for Gulf war excuse”
Guardian of London april 30,2005 “Sudan becomes US ally in war on terror” (massacre of darfur???)
-committee on gov’t reform – march 15th 2005 “Adminstration withheld Halliburton overcharges from international auditors”
-SF GAte jan 21, 2004 “Taking the war private”
-USA today 8-7-2007 ” Attorney- clash landed me on dismissal list”
- Spiegel online (german paper) 4-17-06 “Unbridled capitalism will lead to very real problems”
-The Independent. jan 7, 2007 “Iraq poised to end drought for thirsting oil giants”
-Sunday Herald- oct 6, 2002 “US oil at the heart of Iraq crisis”
Baltimore Sun -march 6, 2007 “Army brass lased over walter reed”
Washington POst feb 21, 2007 ” Justice dep’t statistics on terrorism faulted”
Int’l Herald Tribune-aug 27, 2007 “Americans who report iraq corruption pay a price”
-Washington post 11-26-06 “Hussein Link to 9/11 Lingers in many minds”
-MSNBC 10-26,2007 ” army to probe iraq contracts”.
-CBS News 5-21, 2004 “General Zinni: They’ve screwed up”
-CBS News jan 14, 2008 ” was radio threat to US warships a hoax?”
-MSNBC 1-31-2008 ” Feds let states delay bridge inspections” (loophole allows giving infrequent checkups…)
Washington Post- 07-01-2008 “Ex- agent says CIA ignored iran facts”
- Newsweek 09-10-2007 “Hirsh- rating Petraeus’s report to the hill”
CBS News 04-04-2004 “A toxic cover-up?”
This is just the beginning. what articles have you read???
Why is it that liberals think because one is conservative they must love Bush?
Ok, no blue retorts now!
hey savage why dont you try using some policy points or facts to back up what you say instead of using the old commi stupidity!!! Anyone that critcizes repubs is a commi. You call that a debate!!!!really did you go to public school? do you drive on public roads? have you ever used unemployment? is your food inspected by taxpaying dollars?
Pat and his logical fallacies, I think he has gone over his straw allotment in just one posting.
Maybe he is trying to earn the next Code Pink BDS badge?
Or maybe he is not aware that Obambi is now in office?
Pat is nothing but a uneducated moronic troll without a clue and trolls are like soccer balls, to be kicked around for amusement.
bar, that’s what I’m screaming
)
He’s an idiot that can’t point to anybody here saying they don’t ever, never, ever want regulation… but yet he insists on fighting against that point of view.
lol
And for some reason, he still thinks Iraq is up for debate! LOL!
Arwyn
Liberals are too funny and so predicable.
I did forget to ask him or her if preschool was not in session today and that is why they are here?
Its really Pat from SNL!
Notice the moronic troll in post # 144, asking Savage for real debate and after “it” comes here and makes nothing but strawman insults.
But it does go with the liberal mind set and their one-way street thinking.
They request they we be respectful of them while they are not required to.
Typical liberal.
But I imagine the irony or it all is lost on this lefty moronic dolt.
the point is for the last 8 years you guys have argued that anyone who doesnt support Bush is unpatriotic or a communist. now all of the sudden that all these facts are out, you guys try to distance yourself from Bush. Especially if you voted for him twice. Yes Arwyn, repubs do not like regulation, they supported free trade, now it doesnt serve there purpose because of the state of our economy. Oh check out david gregory questioning Repub Senator Lynsey Grahamm about earmarks. He wouldn’t support Obama’s stimulus because of all the earmarks yet he just introduced his own for south carolina. Even Mccain introduced funding the study of pig odor. Hypocrits!!! If an earmark creates jobs and benefits the local economy, than why is it so bad. Its only okay when its a republican earmark. %40 earmarks came from republicans. My point” There is no consistancy.
Pat
You are thick aren’t you.
You can not come in here making insulting strawman comments and then expect any of us to take you seriously.
So all your points are pointless.
But you do act like a typical uncivilized liberal, now in your defense you immoral types cant really control or help yourself.
arwyn give me an example of a republican who had advocated for regulation during the 8 years of Bush???conservatives believe the free market will take care of everything. it will regulate itself, just like it did now. right? this is repub ideology!!!
bar, which fact would you like to debate because all of your comments have been about insults. no facts, no debate, no intelligent engagement. Still waiting to debate you. BAR, LETS GO STOP WASTING TIME. IS THERE AN ARTICLE YOU WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS? OH I FORGOT YOU DONT READ ARTICLES YOU JUST LISTEN TO O’REILLY AND LIMBAUGH! SHEEP!!
BEH BEH!!!
hahahaha
OKAY LET ME HELP YOU GUYS AND GIVE YOU A GLIMPSE INTO WHAT LED US INTO THIS 2ND GREAT DEPRESSION:
The demand supply balance: If you are to have a balance between demand and supply over time than you either have to have wages rise in sync with productivity, or productivity growth has to be matched by the growth of wages plus debt. New debt is not necessary if wages keep up with rising labor effeciency. repubs had it wrong because what they did with the help of greenspan ; debt growth has been the only way to maintain demand-supply equilibrium starting from 1970’s till now. This new economy where wages trail but proftis outpace productivity. what that translates to is that in order to maintain economic balance, new debt must grow exponentially. Profits and share prices zoom up becoming a bubble but the soaring debt bring this to a complete hault and it falls apart. simply put: when wages trailed productivity the demand grew slowly, so debt increased in order to preserve the demand-supply balance. The entire increase in the debt goes into company profits hence CEO’s incomes. Unemployment is a result of when a CEO fails to match worker pay with productivity gains: the demand falls short of supply and that then triggers layoffs. Therefore it was the growth of our national debt that had quadrupled corporate profits. This is what americans have done the last 30 years. Arwyn, you said everything was okay up until 2006 but you were wrong because this debt has been accumulating for some time. Now its time to pay for this mess. HEY BAR WHAT DO YOU THINK CAUSED THIS MESS? JUST CURIOUS.
*yawn*
Pat
Isn’t it kinda ironic that you expect me and others here to adhere to some standard that you can not nor will not adhere to?
And now you expect me or others to debate you.
How can I or we compare to you the master-baiter!
And you are right, they are all insults, you are not worthy or anything else.
Do not answer a fool according to his foolishness, lest you also be like him.
(Proverbs 26:4 MKJV)
Answer a fool according to his foolishness, so that he may not be wise in his own eyes.
(Proverbs 26:5 MKJV)
You fall under 26:5
Now you could redeem yourself and get the debate that you want, but its all up to you.
Can you figure it out?
I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Bar, s/he’s has to be a satire.
Talking point after screeching talking point, laced with insults and CAPS OUT THE YING YANG and a handy dandy w sux cut & paste?
It is to laugh.
)
And that “you guys argued for 8 years” part is just funny. We did? Where and when? Does s/he think s/he knows us?
I’d hate to break his/her little heart, but where freddie and fannie are concerned, it was a dem-block on oversight and regulation.
And if s/he honestly thinks all republicans want untested milk and sucky school systems it says more about him/her than it does any republican. Poor thing probably thinks we want to go back to slavery days too.
SNL Pat was better informed, lol.
hey dumbass ARWYN: LETS SEE HOW SMART YOU ARE. SO FANNIE AND FREDDIE CAUSED THIS MESS. OKAY LETS DEBATE:
The main problem was the housing bubble which alan greenspan allowed it to grow. This bubble was allowed to get out of control when BANKstERS IGNORED NORMAL PRUDENTIAL STANDARDS IN ISSUING MORTGAGES AND TO MAKE LOANS THAT THEY KNEW COULD NOT BE PAID OFF BY THE BORROWERS. The reason the banks issued these loans is because they knew they could dump the risky loans into the secondary markets where securitizers would hand them off to the schmucks like you around the world. At this point is where Freddie and Fannie made the mistake as they purchased the junk mortgages ISSUED BY THE BANKS FROM 2005-2007. They are not the cause of the problem they exacerbated the problem MORONS. According to data from the federal reserve board, fannie and freddie securitized 315.2 billion worth of mortgages in 2002 accounting for 50.1 percent of the new mortgage debt that year. In 2006 they securitized 276 billion in mortgages which gave them a market share of 34.8% Though Fannie and Freddie screwed up really bad, they were followers the BANKSTERS WERE THE LEADERS. LET ME ASK YOU MORONS ONE MORE QUESTION: DID FREDDIE AND FANNIE CAUSE the CREDIT DEFAULT SWAPS AND DERIVITIVES market TOTALING 40 TRILLION DOLLARS. What caused the fall of AIG: FANNIE AND FREDDIE? These jerk-offs flooded the market with investment in real estate and caused a huge bubble. Just like the savings and loan that your buddy MCCain and partner in crime Phil Grahm was part of. Can any of you explain how freddie and fannie caused the credit default swaps and derivitives totaling more than the worlds GNP? If you want to blame the community reinvestment act which was put into place when carter was president, can you explain why in 30 years this real estate bubble has never happened. HEY BAR WHO MADE THE SUBPRIME LOANS? FANNIE? WRONG AGAIN READ******”COX, GREENSPAN AND SNOW AGREE THAT FANNIE AND FREDDIE MAE DID NOT CAUSE THE FINANCIAL CRISIS” (they testified in front of the house financial services committee) OR READ NEWSWEEK OCT 23, 2008 “SUBPRIME SUSPECTS”
how can investment banks and hedge funds and large insurance companies go under if minorities buying homes they could not afford caused the mess? Did fannie and freddie give AAA ratings to these pools of bad loans? Did the CRA force mortgage companies to give loans with no money down or NO DOC LOANS or ARM at a ridiculous rate of 1.5%? Again they made the problem worse because they bought these junk loans which shored up more money for the BANKERS TO LEND OUT and create more of THEIR EXOTIC MORTGAGES.
Did the community reinvestment act cause Lehman bros to borrow hundreds of billions of dollars in short term debt and they then bought billions in overpriced real estate? fannies fault? clinton, Adams, Jesus’s, Ghandi’s fault. Why dont we blame Kelly Clarkson. Its her fault!!!
GOD YOU GUYS ARE DUMMER THAN I THOUGHT
Pat,
You’ve proved it once and for all, we just don’t deserve you. Bye.
# 157 Arwyn
That was great,
“but of course”.
One must understand the anatomy of a liberals brain, if you really care to engage with one.
Pat
Get that GAIA hat out of your ass before you hurt yourself, you fucking lunatic.
The great part is everyone can see what a hate filled unhinged liberal we have here, back to 1.0 you go.
n2l
just as i thought you guys have no fuckin clue what your talkin about. no response to my fannie and freddie debate. im leaving so i can find some more conservatives to debate. by the way i am a woman not a guy. why dont you guys talk about the size of your penis or about how the earth is flat and that its only 5000 years old. by the way can you guys see russia from your house, i hear obama needs a russian expert!!!!
A tip for pat.
If you wish to debate, wiping the froth from the corners of your mouth, is a good starting point.
Why debate the mentally disturbed?
Whats in it for us?
As this poster has shown there is no debate its all unhinged ranting and ravings.
bar,
Thanks for clarifying my cryptic post.
just as i thought you guys have no freakin clue what i am talking about. by the way bar “adhere to your standards”? no i am just talkin economics 101 (macro) pure basic economics!!! but how can i expect you to understand that when you can’t even tie your shoes. By the way, I am a chick not a guy. Why don’t you guys talk about the size of your dingdong, or about how the earth is flat and its only 5,000 years old. Oh, by the way can you guys see Russia from your house, I hear Obama needs a russian expert!!!! I am going to find some other conservatives to debate! You guys are laughable!!!!!
n2l
I should not have kept feeding it, but yesterday I was in the mood to insult and kick it around.
And although we already knew, it does cause the immature teenage simple minded to expose their open hypocrisy and dishonesty.
Its impossible to debate trolls like that, every time you score they will just keep moving the goal posts.
And they can never stay on topic, they run from topic to topic like an insane person, I am pretty sure I have kick this troll around before at a different web site.
bar,
This troll is definitely not Socrates.
okay, no 2 liberals, what would you like to discuss gays, guns and abortion? how to play with your ding dong or real debate like drilling for oil?, tax havens for corporate rich? how to create jobs? healthcare? science? how about anti-trust laws and the SHerman act, raising minimum wages, what causes bubbles, Stem cell research oh yeah your idea of science is the bible. which one, cause i have not heard one comment from you either. waiting to hear from the smart one. are you a russian expert? Did you know McCain thought the president of spain lived in latin america. he was asked the question while running for president from the spanish press. I guess he did not know where Europe was, sounds kind of like you guys. Pallin couldnt tell Katie Couric other supreme court decisions made besides Roe V Wade or what newspapers she reads. How sad for the republican party to go from Eisenhower to this. Wow he is probably rolling over in his grave
by the way bar “adhere to your standards”? no i am just talkin economics 101
You also cant debate trolls that cant read nor comprehend, you would be better off arguing with your dog, I think the dog has at least a 20 point IQ advantage.
Watching this troll, gives me a mental picture of an insane person in a round room frantically looking for corner.
pat, you are truly unhinged.
I have no interest in attempting a rational debate with someone as irrational as you.
Isn’t it time for your daily slob-knobbing of B-HO?
I think Obambi likes him because he has no gag reflex, so at least its got that going of it.
Just to beat a dead horse.
This troll has proclaimed their intellectual superiority over us stupid folk, yet it still wants to debate with us?
Very narcissistic and starved for attention it is.
hey bar, can you tell me the republican idea of how to get us out of this mess. All I have heard from repubs is tax break tax break tax break!!!! enlighten me please.
‘Scuse me while I whip this out.
/reaches for strawman
They don’t make movies like that anymore.
The Sheriff is a …..
Jesus loves you, everybody else thinks your an asshole!!!
here are some examples of REPUBLICAN ideas:
Global warming is junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.
“Standing tall for america” means firing your workers and moving your jobs to india/china.
The United States should not be part of the United Nations however our highest national priority is enforcing US resolutions against Iraq.
Being a drug addict is a moral failing unless you are a conservative radio talk show host. Then its an illness and you need our prayers for recovery.
The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterens benefits and combat pay. NO PTSD treatment, its all in your head soldier!!
If condomns are kept out of school, teens won’t have sex.
Sadaam was a good guy when Reagan armed him,a bad guy when Bush daddy made war on him,a good guy when Cheney did business with him, and a bad guy when Bush needed a “we can’t find bin laden diversion.
A president lying about an extramarital affair is impeachable, a president lying to enlist support for a war which thousands die is solid defense policy.
Being gay is digusting and sinful unless you are a republican senator or congressman.
Giving healthcare and unemployment benefits to americans is wasteful spending, giving 3 trillion to wall street and allowing the CEO’s to pay themselves bonuses with our tax dollars is STIMULUS!!
TO BE CONTINUED….
No, we just think Pat is an AH.
Democrat values.
Abortion on demand free of charge at anytime even after birth or at least within a few days, just throw it in the trash, democrats don’t care. What they care about is Iraqi terrorist getting killed and being treated poorly.
Free drugs of any type.
No death penalty for murderers that is reserved for babies the sick or impaired only. And besides they would have never committed the crime if they just had free drugs, condoms and abortions.
Euthanasia is just an extreme act of kindness, disabled persons are just a big drain on evolution.
Those Zionist are the real Nazi’s occupying the real country Palestine.
Nobody should be allowed to speak against Islam or democrats and occupied Palestinians are freedom fighters so killing Jewish noncombatants is a “righteous” act, kinda like abortion and euthanasia.
Animals are better than people so they should have the same rights and voting rights, because we know they would all vote for Democrats. Come to think of it, dead people always vote for democrats, so why not animals too, dead or alive?
They love Islam but hate Christians and Jews because they dare to “think” and dare to make moral judgements and occupy other peoples countries. They love Islam even if they kill gays and treat women like cattle, because Christians probably did that before too and the Bible condones slavery don’t you know.
They want Israel to give all its land back to mythical “Palestine”, yet they would never consider giving their land back to American Indians.
They love any terrorist group even domestic ones, just as long as they hate America..
They treat foreign dignitaries like garbage and then claim they are tried, poor baby is tried and only after a few weeks in office. What a good way to inspire confidence Mr president.
Your future sure is looking bright.
Maybe working is not something they are used too, doing drugs yes, killing babies yes, working not so much.
They think all white men are bad and all women are a minority and should all be single mothers on welfare, because republican family values are evil and really, really bad for America.
They think republicans run all the major corps even if everyone of those corps contribute heavily to democrats. They rob Freddie and Fanny then get appointed by Obambi the embarrassing half-white racist teleprompter president. And its all those evil Christian republicans fault.
Baby killers, check – Islamic terrorist lovers, check – domestic terrorist lovers, check – wife cheaters, check – wife beaters, check – liars, check – thieves, check – racists, check – hypocrites, check – anti-free speech, check – just wants free shit, check – free drugs, check – no work, check.
To be continue at the risk of ad nauseam
Contradictions of Socialism (I saw the future & ran away)
higher taxes, what the fuck do you call paying 2 billion a fuckin week on a war that Bush lied us into. Don’t forget the no bid contracts that we are paying 10,000 per month per employee instead of having our soldiers do that same job, Or what about the 3 trillion dollars we are sending wall street. is that not your fucking tax dollars?????? BY THE WAY GEORGE BUSH GAVE THE LARGEST TAX BREAKS IN THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY, AND LOOK WHERE IT GOT US. The key to a better economy is tax cuts for middle class and to businesses who reinvest in their business not tax havens or flood the market and create bubbles. Its about having good paying jobs. WAGES HAVE DECLINED AND WE MADE UP FOR IT BY GOING INTO DEBT.
RESULTS OF REPUBLICAN IDEAS AS SUMMARIZED BY THE BBC.
Wholesale sellout of core strategic assets to foreign acquirers: according to official figures, more than 16,613 U.S. companies have been sold to foreign corporations from 1978 to July 2008 for trillions of dollars.
2. Decline of vital industries through bankruptcy, foreign predatory practices, and foreign acquisitions: examples include steel, publishing, textiles, machines tools, automobiles, electronics, movies and more.
3. Inability to manufacture competitively: in 2006, American manufacturers suffered a 22 percent structural cost disadvantage compared to overseas competitors through taxes, health and pension benefits, litigation, regulation, and unequal environment protection.
4. Overdependence on imports: in 2006, $1 in $4 of US consumption on manufactured goods went immediately and directly to imports. In 2007 China alone exported over $321 billion in goods to the United States compared to the $62 billion in goods we exported to them.
5. Massive wealth transfer to foreign ownership: our trade deficit, estimated to exceed $800 billion in 2008, is costing $1.5 million per minute in remittance to foreign companies.
6. Loss of job and career opportunities for people at all education levels: 3 million high-paying manufacturing jobs lost between 2000-2005. The U.S. lost 63 thousand jobs in February of 2008 alone.
7. Insourcing of foreign manufacturers destroys our domestic industries, takes profits and taxes overseas, and provides only low-skill jobs for American workers: foreign manufacturers operating in the U.S. accounted for over 20 percent of our exports and manufacturing assets, and a large percentage of our employment in 2006.
8. Dependence on foreign financing of government debt: as of December, 2007, the U.S owed 53 percent of its debt to foreign countries and other international interests. That is 25.5 percent of our total national deficit and we finance nearly 100 percent of all new borrowings from foreign interests – our competitors are now our bankers.
9. Outsourcing key manufacturing, research, and design: unchecked offshore outsourcing benefits individual companies and shareholders but destroys entire industries and communities.
10. Transition to services-oriented economy: high-paying goods-producing industries have lost net employment over the past 27 years while lower paying non-tradable services-providing employment has doubled.
11. Lost scientific, engineering, technological prowess: in 2004, China and India graduated a combined 950,000 engineers versus 70,000 in the U.S. The United States ranks near the bottom of science/math proficiency.
12. Wealth shift into less productive assets: market value of residential real estate was a record-high, 38 percent of household net worth, in 2006. This is further exacerbated by record over-inflated home valuations and mortgage levels and created the need for the government Bailouts of 2008.
13. Record levels of personal and government debt: household liabilities at record levels, federal government also adding record levels of debt each year, financed mostly by foreign countries. Trade deficits are transferring unprecedented, accelerating amounts to foreign hands each year.
14. Misleading commonly used economic statistics: misleading incomplete statistics, like GDP, job creation and production statistics belie our crumbling economic infrastructure.
15. Proven failed trade policies and other counter productive legislation contributing to our demise:Agreement with groups like the World Trade Organization; irresponsible treaties, like NAFTA; and outdated foreign tax agreements, like the Value Added Tax are destroying U.S. industries and allowing our assets to be sold or taken from us.
BY THE WAY IF YOUR FACTS WERE RIGHT YOU WOULD KNOW THAT BUSH HAS CREATED THE LARGEST GOVERNMENT EVER AND THIS IS NOT BEING DISPUTED BY CONSERVATIVES. BUT SINCE YOUR HEAD IS UP YOUR ASS, HOW WOULD I EXPECT YOU TO SEE THAT.
pat
Just curious. Are you pat from 1.0?
A ‘Disappointed’ Greenspan Lashes Out at Bush’s Economic Policies
Doug Mills/The New York Times
Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve
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LinkedinDiggFacebookMixxMy SpaceYahoo! BuzzPermalinkBy EDMUND L. ANDREWS
Published: September 17, 2007
WASHINGTON, Sept. 16 — After nearly two decades as chairman of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan wants to solidify his standing in history.
In an interview timed with the release of his memoir Monday, Mr. Greenspan sought to distance himself from the economic policies of President Bush and refute critics who say his policies at the Fed contributed to the housing bubble and bust that is now roiling the economy.
Mr. Greenspan unleashed bottled-up frustration about President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and Republican leaders in Congress who, he contends, put politics ahead of Republican goals like fiscal discipline and lower government spending.
“I’m just very disappointed,” he said glumly, as he sat in his living room. “Smaller government, lower spending, lower taxes, less regulation — they had the resources to do it, they had the knowledge to do it, they had the political majorities to do it. And they didn’t.”
In the end, he said, “political control trumped policy, and they achieved neither political control nor policy.”
Mr. Greenspan, a lifelong Republican who presided over the longest sustained economic expansion in American history, sounded frustrated that neither a Republican White House nor Republican leaders in Congress were heeding his quiet pleas for greater fiscal discipline.
Mr. Greenspan said he met frequently at the White House with President Bush and Vice President Cheney, but his enthusiasm for the new administration cooled as he discovered that Mr. Bush ignored much of his advice.
In his first term, Mr. Bush would rarely let a week go by without visiting a small business or a camera-friendly factory to extol entrepreneurship or the importance of tax cuts. But back at the White House, Mr. Greenspan got virtually no response to his advice that the president veto spending bills. Mr. Greenspan said he was told his recommendations would be “taken under advisement.”
His observations are in line with those of others who engaged Mr. Bush frequently, including the former Treasury secretary, Paul H. O’Neill, who was fired in December 2002. After the Sept. 11 attacks, they said, Mr. Bush would become animated and even passionate about counterterrorism or the war in Iraq. But they said that broader economic discussions bored him, unless he could take them to the factory floor.
Mr. Greenspan has always been acutely aware of the explosive impact that his public comments could have in both political and economic circles. He never criticized specific Republican or Democratic politicians while he was at the Federal Reserve, even when he was under attack from one side or the other.
But in the interview, Mr. Greenspan seemed dismayed that leaders in his own party paid little heed to his pleas for spending restraint and for “pay-as-you-go” rules that would require Congress to offset the cost of new tax cuts with savings elsewhere. He repeated the conclusion about the Republicans’ loss of Congressional control in the 2006 elections: “They dese
republicans greenspan and Bush were both corporate cronies and now Greenspan is trying to backpeddle. You guys are a disgrace!!!!!! At least I agree with him that republicans screwed this economy.
#191-Song— I sure it’s not the 1.0 “pat.” This one claims to be a woman and the 1.0 one, IIRC, is a guy.
Plus the 1.0 “pat” is not rude, insulting, condescending, or hysterically long-winded.
pat:
Hey, shit-for-brains, you want to explain why Obama has spent more money than every single president in history, combined?
He’s one of your Democratic buddies…
And you better give me a good answer and not a bunch of talking points or I will flush you outta here so fast you will be on a first name basis with the turds at the bottom of the porta potty.
Pat likes to soil himself in public
and then wonder why we treat him like he reeks.
He/she is a typical troll just trying to get attention.
Savage
That’s funny.
lol
BANK BAILOUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!wall
WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO in order to STIMUALTE THE ECONOMY IS MANUFACTOR OUR WAY OUT OF THIS.
by the way:
No one is talking about the 2 billion a week of Bush’s war. check this article out.
A ‘fraud’ bigger than Madoff
Senior US soldiers investigated over missing Iraq reconstruction billions
By Patrick Cockburn in Sulaimaniyah, Northern Iraq
Monday, 16 February 2009
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In what could turn out to be the greatest fraud in US history, American authorities have started to investigate the alleged role of senior military officers in the misuse of $125bn (£88bn) in a US -directed effort to reconstruct Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein. The exact sum missing may never be clear, but a report by the US Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction (SIGIR) suggests it may exceed $50bn, making it an even bigger theft than Bernard Madoff’s notorious Ponzi scheme.
Related articles
Thank You Suzie, I could not have said it better!!!!!
Suze Orman, the sharp-tongued CNBC pundit, sounded off in a major way in an article published Friday — taking President George W. Bush to the woodshed.
He’s not the only one, though. In a detailed interview with WWD, Orman is said to have railed against a spectrum of financial demigods, among them former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan and Deputy Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers and even the retirees who got hoodwinked by Bernie Madoff.
But of Bush, the 57-year-old Orman has only scorn.
For Bush, the interviewer says, she “holds an especially dark place in her heart.
“Commander in Chief?” she sputters. “You blew up every single financial vessel we had and if you think you aren’t personally responsible, well, the blame starts at the top. There is no higher top than you, sir! If I were you, I would feel so absolutely horrific that I would take every penny I had and distribute it to anybody and everybody to help them in whatever way I could. You owe the American people every penny of your fortune and your family’s fortune.”
Pat
Great argument, Bush spent billions on the war, so its just great that the pinko fool is spending trillions.
Illiberals think 3 wrongs make a right, that’s some good illogic you have there and the fact that you just cant let your BDS go, even though Bush is not the President anymore.
But maybe you are not aware of that little fact?
You clearly have some mental issues as your previous comments show.
Another asteroid struck Mars today.
Blame Bush.
Iraq:Where Liberal Dreams Die!
Vulcan went to war against the Romulans last night.
See, it’s that damn Bush again! hehe
okay so who caused this wall street mess. It happened on GEORGE BUSH’S WATCH !!!!!!!!! AND obama is having to bailout banks, the feds handed over 2 trillion to the banks and that does not include TARP FUNDS: MOney for the auto industry, and more bank bailouts. He is trying to stimulate the economy through government spending. In the last great depression, the combination of Roosevelt’s policies which protect your money today FDIC and GLASS SEAGULL ACT and World War II spending got us out of the depression. THIS TIME ITS GOING TO TAKE PRODUCTION IN OUR COUNTRY BY RESETTING THE RULES OF TRADE. REMEMBER FREE TRADE WAS A CONSERVATIVE IDEA THAT ONLY CREATED SLAVE LABOR, LOSS OF JOBS FOR AMERICANS, AND MORE PROFITS TO THESE GREEDY CORPORATIONS. NOW A LITTLE INSIGHT:
Despite the hoopla in most media about the specifics of this development, or that, I want to step back from it all and look at the longer historical perspective.
the period we’re now in is a natural consequence of over-production in a huge number of areas. In Scoville Hamlin’s 1930 classic “The Menace of Over Production” the outline of what was then a developing Depression was traced back to over production in a broad spectrum of human endeavors including the coal industry, oil, textiles, agriculture, and the radio industry to name just a few from the period.
Now that everything is deflating, it isnt going to be a soft landing. Republicans also do not believe in the Sherman Act anti-trust laws which stop companies from becoming monopolies through manipulation of the market, commerce and trade. That is why we hear AIG IS TOO BIG TO FAIL!!!!!!
I HAVE NOT HEARD THE REPUBLICAN WAY OF GETTING US OUT OF THIS MESS, JUST COMPLAINTS AND NO IDEAS???????????????
A look around today’s economy says that we have experienced a similar “Menace of Over Production” which precipitated the current hard times. These include the over production in the auto industry, over production of Housing, over production of Financial Products, and over production of software and sure, let’s throw in the over production of computer networks. Want to throw in over production in the death industry? Sure, what the hell. How many times we can blow up or poison the planet can be expanded infinitely, so why not?
A range of factors led to the housing crisis that dragged the economy into the toilet—but President Bush’s philosophy likely played a key role in the collapse, reports the New York Times. Dozens of interviews point to both Bush’s drive to expand homeownership and his steadfast belief in minimal market regulation as central factors in the crisis, the Times reports. *****************REPUBLICANS DO NOT BELIEVE IN REGULATIONS.CONTINUE PLEASE….
“The Bush administration took a lot of pride that homeownership had reached historic highs,” said former Treasury secretary John Snow. “But what we forgot was that it has to be done in the context of people being able to afford their house.” As trouble mounted, Bush aides were slow to recognize it, ignoring experts’ advice. LIKE HE IGNORED THE MEMO “BIN LADEN PLAN TO ATTACK N.Y. CITY” “The result was a series of piecemeal policy prescriptions that lagged behind the escalating crisis,” the Times notes.
Source: New York Times
Pat
Who caused this wall street mess?
Pinko Dhimmcrats sticking their fingers up the ass of businesses.
It started with Jimmy Carter with the Dhimmicrats desire for everyone to have the American dream, whether they could afford it or not.
Pres pinko long before he was Pres teleprompter was suing banks for not lending enough to the disadvantaged, thus the current crisis along with all the other socialist Dhimmicrat bullshit.
Your view of history is typical illiberal bullshit, rewritten to fit your intellectual midgetness.
Only asshats like you think that Republicans and Pres Bush ran each and every sector of free enterprise.
You are an idiot, but thanks for playing.
Former White House spokesperson Dana Perino said on Sunday that the Bush administration, while presiding over the start of the current recession, nevertheless deserved some credit for the modest uptick that Wall Street experienced this past week.
Appearing on CSPAN’s Washington Journal, the last of Bush’s press secretaries said it was “not a secret” that the current economic mess started under her boss’s watch. But, she cautioned, the public had yet to realize the full extent to which the past president’s policies “alleviat[ed] the downturn.” Take, for instance, the improvement in the Dow Jones Industrial average this week.
“You were just speaking earlier about the possibility that since we had a little bit of a better week on Wall Street does that spell a turnaround?” Perino said. “Can all the credit go specifically to President Obama? Well, I would say no. We are just going to have to take a while to let all of this settle down and let the policies that our administration and the new administration are trying to put in place have a chance to work.”
I see. Just so we’re clear, here’s a helpful guide to the rules of market watching, as they relate to partisan politics:
When the market went down on Bush’s watch before the 2008 elections, this was Bill Clinton’s fault.
When the market went down on Bush’s watch between November 2008 and January 2009, this was Barack Obama’s fault.
When the market went down during Obama’s first seven weeks in office, this was definitely Barack Obama’s fault.
And when the market rallies on Obama’s watch during the second week in March, George W. Bush deserves at least some of the credit.
I’m glad Perino helped set the record straight. Putting aside whether watching Wall Street is a useful guide to measuring the strength of economic policies — it clearly isn’t — the point to remember is that positive developments are evidence of Republican wisdom, and negative developments are evidence of Democratic failure.
Remember when you were a kid and someone told you, “I’ll flip a coin — heads I win, tails you lose”? It’s kind of like that.
SOUNDS LIKE REPUBLICANS, NEVER TAKE THE BLAME FOR ANYTHING.
HEY BAR (STUPID) IF THE COMMUNITY REINVESTMENT ACT IS TO BLAME ANWSER 2 QUESTIONS FOR ME”
1) IT WAS INACTED 30 YEARS AGO, SO WHY DID THIS MESS NEVER HAPPEN BEFORE BUSH TOOK OFFICE?
2) DID THE COMMUNITY REINVESTMENT ACT CAUSE 40 TRILLION IN CREDIT DEFAULT SWAPS, DERIVATIVES?, AAA RATING OF MORTGAGE BACKED SECURTIES CONTAINING SUBPRIME AND EXOTIC LOANS??????????????HUH???????????????
Pat
And another thing, you came here foaming at the mouth with typical insulting fucktard illiberal stupidity and never once apologized.
So if you think I or anyone else will take you seriously, you are a lot stupider then I ever gave you credit for.
P.S. The best part of you ran down the crack of your mommies ass and ended up as a stain on the mattress, you fucking stupid immature illiberal moron.
Pat
Interesting that you really being the psychopath “timb” only show up here after you have been trounced badly at Patterico and Darleens place.
Par for your immature illiberal asshat course I suppose.
What a complete and total loser you are.
Investing InsightsCommunity Reinvestment Act had nothing to do with subprime crisis
Posted by: Aaron Pressman on September 29 Businessweek
Fresh off the false and politicized attack on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, today we’re hearing the know-nothings blame the subprime crisis on the Community Reinvestment Act — a 30-year-old law that was actually weakened by the Bush administration just as the worst lending wave began. This is even more ridiculous than blaming Freddie and Fannie.
The Community Reinvestment Act, passed in 1977, requires banks to lend in the low-income neighborhoods where they take deposits. Just the idea that a lending crisis created from 2004 to 2007 was caused by a 1977 law is silly. But it’s even more ridiculous when you consider that most subprime loans were made by firms that aren’t subject to the CRA. University of Michigan law professor Michael Barr testified back in February before the House Committee on Financial Services that 50% of subprime loans were made by mortgage service companies not subject comprehensive federal supervision and another 30% were made by affiliates of banks or thrifts which are not subject to routine supervision or examinations. As former Fed Governor Ned Gramlich said in an August, 2007, speech shortly before he passed away: “In the subprime market where we badly need supervision, a majority of loans are made with very little supervision. It is like a city with a murder law, but no cops on the beat.”
Not surprisingly given the higher degree of supervision, loans made under the CRA program were made in a more responsible way than other subprime loans. CRA loans carried lower rates than other subprime loans and were less likely to end up securitized into the mortgage-backed securities that have caused so many losses, according to a recent study by the law firm Traiger & Hinckley (PDF file here).
Finally, keep in mind that the Bush administration has been weakening CRA enforcement and the law’s reach since the day it took office. The CRA was at its strongest in the 1990s, under the Clinton administration, a period when subprime loans performed quite well. It was only after the Bush administration cut back on CRA enforcement that problems arose, a timing issue which should stop those blaming the law dead in their tracks. The Federal Reserve, too, did nothing but encourage the wild west of lending in recent years. It wasn’t until the middle of 2007 that the Fed decided it was time to crack down on abusive pratices in the subprime lending market. Oops.
Better targets for blame in government circles might be the 2000 law which ensured that credit default swaps would remain unregulated, the SEC’s puzzling 2004 decision to allow the largest brokerage firms to borrow upwards of 30 times their capital and that same agency’s failure to oversee those brokerage firms in subsequent years as many gorged on subprime debt. (Barry Ritholtz had an excellent and more comprehensive survey of how Washington contributed to the crisis in this week’s Barron’s.)
There’s plenty more good reading on the CRA and the subprime crisis out in the blogosphere. Ellen Seidman, who headed the Office of Thrift Supervision in the late 90s, has written several fact-filled posts about the CRA controversey, including one just last week. University of Oregon professor and economist Mark Thoma has also defended the CRA on his blog. I also learned something from a post back in April by Robert Gordon, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, which ends with this ditty:
BUSINESS WEEK article : HEY BAR READING FACTS MIGHT HELP YOU GET YOUR STORY STRAIGHT….duh!!!
hey bar have you read this report from the federal reserve. probably not,
Federal Reserve: “Community Reinvestment Act – Not the Cause of the Housing Crisis”
Thursday, 19 March 2009 20:11
WASHINGTON, D.C. – US Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN) welcomed the unequivocal conclusion of Federal Reserve officials that the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) was not responsible for the on-going housing crisis.
“CRA has helped ensure that families and small businesses in lower income and minority communities are not starved of vital loans and investments,” Ellison said. “There are those who continue to make ideologically-driven claims that CRA is the cause of our current woes. The Fed’s research demonstrates without a doubt that those allegations simply don’t hold any water,” Ellison stated.
At a recent Financial Institutions Subcommittee hearing, Sandra Braunstein, Director of the Division of Consumer and Community Affairs of the Federal Reserve System, declared that bank lending requirements under the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) did not cause the current foreclosure crisis. Braunstein’s statement came in response to questions from the Financial Institutions Subcommittee Chairman Luis Gutierrez (D-IL). Braunstein’s comments reinforce findings in a comprehensive report on CRA and echo previous statements by Federal Reserve officials.
Ellison, a member of the subcommittee, concluded that Fed Governor Elizabeth Duke’s earlier statement was correct, when she indicated that the claim was a “misperception promulgated by many who either do not know much about the law or don’t like it.”
LIKE BAR
The Federal Reserve’s analysis indicated that only 6% of all higher-priced loans were covered by CRA
Timb = pat
You are an egocentric illiberal loser of the lowest form, so bye bye.
If you had chosen to apologize for being a vulgar dick head then debate would be possible, but you just want to spew whatever semen you swallowed tonight.
No thanks, TIMB you fucking sociopath.
OH BAR WHAT IS THE MATTER? CAN’T HANDLE INFORMATION WHEN IT DOESN’T AGREE WITH THE EARTH IS FLAT IDEOLOGY. YOU RESPOND WITH INSULTS BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT A CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT JUST LIKE YOUR BUDDY SARA PALIN. DUH!!!!
BAR,APOLOGIZE? do a little research before you bring up limbaugh talking points. you make Bush look smart!!!
Timb AKA Pat
You are nothing but a typical illiberal immoral pile of shit suffering from foaming at the mouth BDS.
Maybe you should save some of that foam for Obama’s dick?
Timb-Pat
This is not your personal website you fucking moron. I am sure you cant afford your own, being the jobless fuck that you are.
So if you don’t apologized for your insults that you started with a month or so ago you will get banned from yet another website. Because you cant seem to act like a non fucking sociopath, you egocentric cocksucker.
I am sure while living in your mommies basement she still thinks you are not a fuck head or a cocksucker, so you have that going for you.
Pat, use your spell check next time, m’kay?
Oh dear Lord. Pat is still back on this thread?
Hey Pat.
Did you ever think that maybe there are PLENTY of reasons this economy went south? Not just one?
From dems taking congress in 06, to the media talking the economy down since early 07 so they could put their boy in the whitehouse, to credit ctiteria being lowered, debt to income ratios being raised, to the fact that every bubble will eventually bust…
etc etc etc
I hope that wasn’t too nuanced for ya.
Oh thanks Bar!
I hadn’t read the rest of the thread, I just saw it was active yet again from a pat-spat.
From your comment I see that I shouldn’t have engaged him at all.
Back to ignore mode!
Hey! Did you know that on this day in history in 1980 – Pink Floyd began a 4-week run in the #1 spot on the pop charts with, “Another Brick in the Wall”? When they open their gold record and played it, they heard “Flowers on the Wall” by the Statler Brothers. Rumor has it they ordered pizza and played it for hours.
Arwyn
I am pretty sure this “Pat” is a psychopathic lefty troll from Patterico, who uses lots of sockpuppets, seeing as it gets banned everywhere it goes.
Lately it shows up here after it gets insulted over there. I have a deep dislike for it and not one ounce of respect. As you can see here it loves to throw out personal attacks then whine and cry unfair when they are thrown back. Then it will show up days later acting as if nothing ever happened.
“Another Brick in the Wall” – that is my favorite Pink Floyd song, and the only one I know.
The second greatest song ever written and performed, was Comfortably Numb.
/imo
Spring has sprung.
Blame Bush.
Arwyn:
Did you know that on this day in history in 1980 – Pink Floyd began a 4-week run in the #1 spot on the pop charts with, “Another Brick in the Wall”?
Did you know I was actually at that show in LA at the Forum? That was almost the coolest thing I ever saw, but seeing Gene Simmons spit flame on the Destroyer tour was OMFG great!
Savage
The fabulous Form, I thinks it’s a church now.
I remember the miracle on Manchester.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_on_Manchester
HEY GUYS THE NATIONAL SECURITY ARCHIVES JUST RELEASED THIS INFORMATION: The NSA are declassified government documents but you wouldn’t know that because O’Reilly tells you what to think:
Over the course of the past several years, declassified documents from CIA and other US government sources revealed that Reagan’s claims were lies and that the US government knew that the right-wing Guatemalan dictatorships systemically massacred political opponents. International and US sanctions against the right-wing Guatemalan dictators had been justified.
Newly declassified documents from the US State Department compiled and publicized this week by the National Security Archive gave further credence to claims that the Reagan administration understood and tried to hide the truth about the Guatemalan regime’s human rights atrocities.
While attempting to blame guerilla groups that fought the military dictatorship for the bulk of the violence, a State Department report in February of 1984 noted, “Government security services have employed assassination to eliminate persons suspected of involvement with the guerrillas or who are otherwise left-wing in orientation.”
The report indicated also “army commanders traditionally have fought the insurgents by kidnapping and murdering Indians and campesinos suspected of collaborating with them.” It also described the use of violence by the right-wing parties that supported Rios and his successors as “traditional.” The report also linked this type of politically violence directly to Rios who had been removed from power in a coup that may have been orchestrated by US intelligence agents just months before the report was made.
or read “THE SCHOOL OF THE AMERICAS” we tought right wind mercenaries in latin america how to torture and kill.
Guerrilas were made up of professors, lawyers common people who were against their FACIST GOVERNMENT!!!!!!(tHIS IS WELL DOCUMENTED BY THE INVESTIGATION ARM OF GUATAMALAN TRUTH COMMISSION. try reading, you might learn alot about foreign policy.
oh brother
Nothing like trying to rehash stale shit.
There are no large coronal holes on the Earth-facing side of the sun.
/blame Bush
remember when Bush said we don’t talk to terrorist well check this national security archive declassified clip: This guy Posada was our CIA man that we used to infiltrate CUBA he downed at 75 passanger airliner of innocent civilians and the man is walking free. IS THIS NOT TERROISM?????????????????
The National Security Archive
The George Washington University Phone: 202/
Gelman Library, Suite 701 Fax: 202/994-
2130 H Street, N.W. www. nsarchive.
Washington, D.C. 20037 nsarchiv@gwu.
Annual Report for 2007
May 2007: On May 3 Archive senior analyst Peter Kornbluh posted key documents from
Venezuelan legal archives on the case of Cuban exile and indicted terrorist Luis Posada Carriles.
The lead document was a “scouting report” written by one of Posada’s Venezuelan employees
on targets “tied to Cuba” for potential terrorist attacks throughout the Caribbean. Among the
information included in the report was the route and schedule of Cubana flight 455, which was
eventually blown up in mid air on October 6, 1976 after taking off from Barbados. The
document was found by police authorities on Posada’s property after the plane was destroyed.
The posting also included handwritten confessions by another Venezuelan employee of Posada
describing how plastic explosive was molded into a toothpaste tube for use as a bomb to destroy
the plane. The public posting of the document for the first time generated substantive news
coverage in Venezuela, the United States, and Cuba. But on May 8 Posada returned to Miami a
free man after a federal judge dismissed the immigration-related charges against him. IMMIGRATION CHARGES? WHAT ABOUT ALL THE INNOCENT PEOPLE HE BLEW UP????????????
Pat
I deleted your last comment.
Take your death threats somewhere else, they are not welcome here.
Unlike republicans, we liberals question everyone including our own leaders. for example Gietner’s new plan to buy up toxic assets is a shit of a plan especially when you review Paul Krugman’s piece in NY Times describing how it will not work, ITS A RECYCLED VERSION OF PAULSON PLAN: SWEDEN’S PLAN WORKED. we need to follow their plan.
In an example Treasury officials used, a bank decides it wants to sell off a pool of bad mortgages with a face value of $100. The government auctions the mortgages, and the highest bid is $84 (which means the bank loses $16, instead of the whole $100 on the line now). The FDIC backs $72 worth of loans for the public/private fund to buy the mortgages, meaning the public/private fund has to come up with $12. Treasury kicks in $6 and private investors kick in $6. If the mortgage can eventually be sold for more than $100, everyone wins — the private investors get a big gain after risking only $6 of their own money, the Treasury gets the same gain, and the FDIC never has to take on the $72 in loans it guaranteed because they’re repaid once the mortgages are resold for a profit. But if the mortgage winds up losing money, the private investors are only on the hook for $6. The FDIC has to repay the $72 in loans regardless.
paul krugman:Geithner scheme… isn’t really about letting markets work. It’s just an indirect, disguised way to subsidize purchases of bad assets…
[T]the real problem with this plan is that it won’t work. Yes, troubled assets may be somewhat undervalued. But the fact is that financial executives literally bet their banks on the belief that there was no housing bubble, and the related belief that unprecedented levels of household debt were no problem. They lost that bet. And no amount of financial hocus-pocus — for that is what the Geithner plan amounts to — will change that fact.
Geithner continues to accept the banks’ argument that this huge bid/ask spread is just a temporary condition: The market just doesn’t understand that the assets are actually worth 60 cents on the dollar. When it realizes this, everything will be fine. The majority of smart economists (at least the ones we read) think this is a crock. The banks are hallucinating (or worse), and most of the assets are worth what the market says they are worth.
In any event, the only way banks can be induced to sell those assets is if someone agrees to pay 60 cents (or more) on the dollar, because otherwise the banks will have to take more writedowns and require more capital. The only way someone will pay 60 cents or more on the dollar is if someone gives them a boatload of free money to be reckless with. That’s where Geithner and the taxpayer come in.
what do you guys think?do you agree with krugman?
Krugman…Krugman…?
Now I remember, he was an economic adviser to Enron.
No 2 liberals: you are correct about krugman working for enron as a consultant. He may be guilty but I doubt that the nobel peace prize and his job at the london school of economics would have investigated this to be sure he is clear. I believe, if he was guilty, something would have come out by now. He is very visible so if he was involved, i think we would have known for sure by all the investigations that were conducted. i found this piece about krugman, but who knows, there is so much corruption out there:
Krugman was one of many economists to serve as a consultant for an advisory board for Enron; he did this in 1999, being paid $37,500[55] before New York Times rules required him to resign when he accepted an offer to be an op-ed columnist in the fall of 1999. He stated later the consulting was to offer “Enron executives briefings on economic and political issues,” and that it had required him to “spend four days in Houston.”[55]
When the story of Enron’s corporate scandals broke, critics[who?] accused him of having a conflict of interest and the job of having been a bribe to control media coverage, charges he denies forcefully, referring to it as “a game of gotcha” and “tabloid journalism.” He states that the payment from Enron did not “cause me to write anything I would not have written otherwise.” For one thing, he says, he was not a journalist at the time: “when Enron approached me there was no hint that a Times connection lay in my future. As soon as I shook hands with the Times, I resigned from that board.” Further, his “normal fee for a one-hour business speech in Boston or New York was $20,000 – more if the speech involved long-distance travel. The Enron board required that I spend 4 days in Houston”; thus the sum involved was not large, in his view. He says that in columns written before and after the scandal, he disclosed his past Enron relationship when he wrote about the company.[55][56] He was critical of the company: he was one of the first writers to argue that deregulation of the California energy market had led to market-manipulation by energy companies (in a column in the New York Times on December 10, 2000 called “California Screaming”); Enron was the largest in this market – “I have been criticizing Enron since January 2001, long before everyone else started bashing the company.”[57]
He writes in The Great Unraveling that:
I was no more perceptive than anyone else; during the bull market years [of the late 1990s] some people did send me letters claiming that major corporations were cooking their books, but – to my great regret – I ignored them.
MY POINT IS GEITNER, LARRY SUMMERS, ROBERT RUBIN, FORMER CLINTON ADVISORS BELIEVE IN FREE TRADE,NOT FAIR TRADE AND THEY HELPED DEREGULATE THE COMMODITIES MODERNIZATION ACT (DERIVITIVE REGULATION) AND ANT-SHERMAN ACT, AND GLASS SEAGULL ACT. THESE WERE IMPLEMENTED BY ROOSEVELT TO PREVENT BANKS FROM DESTROYING THEMSELVES OR BECOMING TO BIG TO FAIL. THEY ARE NOW ADVISING OBAMA AND GIVING HIM BAD ADVICE. YOU ARE CORRECT ABOUT CURBING SPENDING, BUT PRODUCTION IN THE US(MANUFACTORING) IS THE ONLY SOLUTION TO GAINING WEALTH AND GETTING AMERICANS WORKING.
BY THE WAY I DON’T HATE YOU GUYS, I JUST THINK TALKING ABOUT ISSUES IS GOOD FOR DEBATE AND REMEMBER WE ARE THE SAME WORKING CLASS UNLESS YOU ARE A BILLIONAIRE. THESE CORPORATIONS DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU OR ME. AT LEAST WE HAVE THAT IN COMMON.
pat, thanks for calming down and acting rational.
hey i am sorry if i made you guys feel bad with my use of language. The economy has me on the edge and Bush, clinton and all these politicians are just morons no matter what party they are from. this is my last posting, and i want you guys to know that i hope we can find common ground because we share more in common then you think and these corporate jerks want us to be divided. Anyways, no hard feelings and thanks for letting me vent. take care. pat